Dave Daubenmire and Doug Hagmann: Defending Holier-Than-Thou Liars For Christ against Those Who Tell It Like It Is

Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 4:1-2

The day this “Paying Taxes Is Sin” former high school coach got himself a Non Profit Ministry.

On July 15, 2002, Dave (Coach) Daubenmire registered his Ohio non-profit corporation, Pass The Salt Ministries, Inc., as a church.  Organized for the purpose of furthering  the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Articles of Incorporation allow Pass The Salt Ministries to conduct worship services, prepare and ordain ministers, conduct missionary work in all places and to establish local churches. In 2015, reported income was $158,070, with assets totaling $57,976.

Dave Daubenmire has publicly stated that it is a sin for Christians to pay taxes to the government, and apparently he avoids doing so through his non-profit corporation.  This position is explained in this screenshot of an article published by Right Wing Watch.

So are Christians expected to follow in the footsteps of Dave Daubenmire and get their own tax exempt church ministry?  What about the God ordained aspects of government that are presently being administered properly? Who does Daubenmire think is responsible for funding those  benefits? Somehow, Pass The Salt Ministries, Inc. fails to explain, in commonsense terms, the implications of all those questions which it raises continually in the public sphere, as we shall discover in today’s post.

The Coach Who Never Lost a Game

This Non-Payer of Taxes, “Coach” Dave Daubenmire,  is recognized for his videos where he sports a baseball cap and T-shirt style uniform in front of a photo backdrop of an empty sports coliseum.  He views  ordinary and political life in America as a game which must be won. And if he should lose, he declares a Win, anyway.

Making a mockery of Jesus and the cross as a buffoon. He ignores the fact that his non profit org. is supposed to function as a church which gives glory to Jesus Christ as The Son of God and the Lord and Savior of the world.

An example of this form of walking in craftiness was displayed on December 14, 2017,in an article Coach Dave wrote for News With Views, asking Is It Ever OK For A Christian to Lie? The core issue at hand concerned the various allegations which had been made against Judge Roy Moore, who was seeking the office of United States Senator for Alabama.  Those allegations, involving inappropriate behavior many years ago towards teenage girls, caused many voters to withdraw their support.

Daubenmire, in this December 14th article, said he personally believed Judge Roy Moore,  that the charges against him were bogus. However, we are going to take a look at what happened two days prior, when the words of Daubenmire could have been easily taken to mean that he was convinced that the accusations against Moore were true.

In this December 14th back peddling article, Daubenmire  wrote, “Whether we realize it or not, Christian values WON in Alabama on Tuesday.  The vote was not a rejection of values but an upholding of them. However, the Christian community was divided about whether or not Judge Moore was worthy of their vote.  Cast aside the arguments about his guilt or innocence…his right to the presumption of innocence…the political tactics involved in the accusations, Christian values carried the day.  Those who voted for Judge Moore did it to advance the Kingdom.  Christians who didn’t vote for him believed they were advancing the Kingdom by demanding honesty.”

The problem with Dave Daubenmire and also with Doug Hagmann who promotes the “Coach” and defends him against his critics, is that both men have a record of protecting liars, whether it be Kent Hovind, the tax fraud with his false credentialed PHD, or V-the Guerrilla Economist‘s fraudulent securities and banking credentials.

Kyle Mantyla of Right Wing Watch Was Accused by Hagmann of Stalking Dave Daubenmire, when all Mantyla had done was exercise his Freedom of the  Press journalistic rights.

You might not agree with the philosophy of Right Wing Watch;  however, if their journalism is  accurate, give credit where credit is due. Christians need to be making more of a public stand against those who are merchandising the name of Christ.

So what event, or should we say, WHO was the primary cause which prompted the public waffling by Dave Daubenmire? There are several possibilities, but there seems to be one critic of both Daubenmire and Hagmann that has gained a special place in their world.

In this Hagmann Report of October 16, 2017 on Forgotten Hurricanes, at the 2.30 mark, Doug Hagmann remarks, ” ..what really gets me is you’ve got this, this organization known as  Right-wing Watch and I, that’s the last time I’m gonna say that name of that, of that despicable website and, and some snowflake by the name of Kyle. Let me ask you, Kyle who apparently you, you believe or who you, I don’t know,  is stalking Coach Dave Daubenmire, in my view, anyway.  What in the hell Kyle have you done to help other people?  My bet is zero.  What, have you been on the ground in Texas?  Have you been on the ground in Puerto Rico?  And here you sit behind some, some website and do nothing but be critical of guys like Dave Daubenmire.  And, and that Coach, I gotta tell you, that pisses me off to no end.”

On December 12, 2017, two months after that particular Doug Hagmann rant, Coach Dave TV published a one hour video broadcast called A Man After God’s Own Heart, Judge Moore.  Dave Daubenmire’s opinions prompted  Right Wing Watch’s Kyle Mantyla to issue a short article with the headline,  Dave Daubenmire:  Roy Moore Should Lie About Misconduct Allegations ‘If It Advances The Kingdom of God“.

Kyle Mantyla began by saying,  “On his ‘Pass The Salt Live’ webcast this morning, Religious Right activist Dave Daubenmire said that Roy Moore has no obligation to tell the truth regarding multiple allegations that he pursued sexual relationships with teenage girls when he was in his 30’s and that, in fact, it is better for him to lie about it if doing so will help to advance the kingdom of God. Daubenmire, who has been an ardent Moore supporter for years and even interviewed Moore on his program back in 2013, likened Moore’s efforts to become a U. S.  senator from Alabama to using misdirection in a football game, employing subterfuge during a military battle or hiding Jews from the Nazis, saying that deception and dishonesty in such endeavors is acceptable because doing so furthers a greater good”.

Dave Daubenmire: “In fact it’s best to lie, if it advances the Kingdom of God. Oh there I said it, there I said it!”

The Right Wing Watch article links to the full  Daubenmire broadcast, and also features a 1.20 minute excerpt from this same show, from which author Kyle Mantyla quotes a a shortened version.  I have transcribed the entire excerpt below, as it illustrates more completely the core attitude of Daubenmire.

Dave Daubenmire:  “…I heard somebody say the other day… this, this is Judge Roy Moore Day, I’m kind of heading that way, OK.  I get, I want to scream on Facebook, I just screamed on Facebook, I want to scream more on Facebook when I hear people say, ‘Well, Judge Moore is not worthy of the office, if he’s lying about what he did’.  I want to grab him and I want to slap him upside the stinking head.  Because Judge Moore is trying to infiltrate an ungodly system and Judge Moore, the stakes in this uh campaign are so great for the cause of Christ, and Judge Moore is being lambasted by the holier-than-thou Christians who think it says we can never lie.  And that is not what that says!  In fact, it’s best to lie if it advances the kingdom of God.  Oh, there I said it, there I said it.”

Much of the full broadcast features an unpolished “discussion” of scriptures such as Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, and claims that the man after God’s own heart, King David, was a liar, etc. As Dave Daubenmire had restated in his December 14th article, he focuses on his assertion that “The Ten Commandments never mention the act of lying..” and then he offers the strange view, “It is my belief that ALL of the Commandments are in place as a means of protection of the innocent…Is it ever wrong to tell a falsehood in order to PROTECT an innocent person?”

Somehow, I had thought that Dave Daubenmire was promoting lying on the part of Judge Moore to cover his past sins, so he could “infiltrate an ungodly system” for the cause of Christ.  But now,  the ground of Daubenmire’s argument has shifted where Judge Moore is innocent of the allegations made against him, and it was Coach Dave’s intention that Moore’s supporters were the ones being encouraged to “tell a falsehood”. The source of all this confusion is rooted in Daubenmire’s inability to study the Scriptures in any depth, where he can compare “spiritual with spiritual”, for the purposes of teaching, preaching or exhortation.

The Bible says the Christian is to bear witness to the truth

Jesus Christ said to Pilate in John 18:37, “…to this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.  Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”  Do you not hear his voice, Mr. Daubenmire?  In contrast, Jesus Christ said in John 8:44 regarding the devil, that he “abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.  When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:  for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

When the Devil tempted Jesus in Luke 4:5-8, “taking him up into a high mountain” to show him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, he stated, “If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.”  But Jesus Christ who came into this world to bear witness to the truth, reproved the offer of Satan and  quoted the scriptures declaring, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Doug Hagmann comes to the rescue of Dave (Coach) Daubenmire from holier-than-thou Christians 

Afraid to name Jacquelyn Weaver, author of the Tracking the Leopard Meroz blog, Doug Hagmann credits  me  with having wonder woman powers of transcription. So why does he think I  knit sweaters down here in the Deep South,  in Mississippi?  Maybe because he is buried under 5 feet of snow and unable to shovel out of his basement prison.

That evening on the December 12, 2017 Hagmann Report, entitled, Thank You For Your Service, Dave Daubenmire was invited to explain his morning broadcast, and the response made by Right Wing Watch’s Kyle Mantyla.

Just prior to Daubenmire being brought on the show as a guest, Doug and Joe Hagmann surprisingly included in their introduction, oblique remarks about the author of this blog, Tracking the Leopard Meroz.  In my transcription of these remarks, I link to the articles which I had written in times past which correspond to Doug Hagmann’s complaint.

Doug Hagmann:  (17.21) …look, we need, we need to clean out the rot, the infestation in, inside the beltway and we’re not gonna do it by playing by their rules.

Joe Hagmann:  No, no…we’re not, which brings us to our segment two guest, Coach Dave Daubenmire.

Doug Hagmann: Yes.

Joe Hagmann:…who made some waves today and I’m not gonna get into it now, we’re gonna, we’re gonna save it for the next 15 minutes when he comes on, but he was quoted by, called out by,  Right Wing Watch.

Doug Hagmann:  Kyle…I hate Kyle.

Joe Hagmann: And we’re going to get into why that is…

Doug Hagmann:  How ya doing?

Joe Hagmann: And they’re trying to, it’s like a “AHH, see?  We got Coach, you see what he said, we got him, he’s a bad, this isn’t Christian like!”

Doug Hagmann:  Yeah, and I guarantee you people who are so Christian, I guarantee you some little old lady who’s knitting a sweater in Mississippi, and typing everything that we say ( see Haranguing It All Out To Dry, March 7, 2016 by Jacquelyn Weaver) is gonna be saying, “he’s a bad Christian, the same is the same person, the same people who say you know, Center for Medical Progress, they were really, they were unchristian like for infiltrating Planned Parenthood and exposing the infanticide.  That’s not very Christian like to lie, to lie to, under pretext. ( referring to the April 10, 2016 article by Jacquelyn Weaver, The Professional Liar as Hero) well let him explain that, but you know something though see that’s why, that’s why, when I was in court one day I tossed the TV toward a Judge because he said, pretext in, in the legal sense, you can go in and under a pretext undercover, undercover operations require you know, legally you got to kind of change your identity, you got to go in as someone else, otherwise, what do you do, go and say, Hi, I’m Doug Hagmann, I’m an investigator, I’m here to investigate? NO!  NO!  NO! anyway…(19.07)

Joe Hagmann: (34.07)..we have with us Coach Dave Daubenmire, Pass The Salt Ministries, and he has created a small firestorm on the internet on places like Right Wing Watch and Democratic Underground.

Doug Hagmann:  Kyle’s upset with Dave Daubenmire.

Joe Hagmann:  Please bring the Coach on and have him talk about what it is that he said today that has so many people upset on the left side of the aisle.  Coach, it’s great to have you back on the show.

Dave Daubenmire:  Joe, Doug!  Thanks.  You know, they say if you pick a rock and you throw a rock into a bunch of pigs, the one that squeals is the one you hit, so anytime those other guys are a little bit upset at me, I, I think it’s a pretty good situation to be in.

Doug Hagmann:  I like that analogy.

DD: You know, well if the truth isn’t introduced..

DH:  Yes, it is…

DD:  I’m not, I’m not trying to make them friends, with them, Doug, you know I, I, you know for people to take stuff out of context-you guys get a lot of that stuff as well.  Those who aren’t watching my show every day and don’t understand what, what came before just this morning’s program are not, not going to understand what it is that we’re talking about.

But the whole lot, the whole premise that we were making was, was this whole debate about what’s going on with Judge Roy Moore and the fact that, that we are being forced, Doug, Joe, to live by, to play by two sets of, different sets of rules; in other words, we have the set of rules for the Christians and then we have a set of rules for everybody else.  And it’s in an ungodly, see the political process, government used to be righteous.

Government’s no longer righteous and those of us who studied this at all as I have, now know that Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals, one of the number one rules, I think it was number four, I don’t have it right in front of me right now, was to make the opponent live up to his own set of values.  And Alinsky said that’s impossible to do, you can never, none of us Doug can ever live up to all of the Christian values that are put out before and so what I’m trying to have, what I was alluding to today in this whole Judge Roy Moore, see this Doug, this thing’s so deep, let me try to unpack it a little bit if I can.

DH:  Sure.

DD:  First of all, Doug, I got, I got as much grief from Christians as I have them from the left.

DH:  Hey, welcome to the club and it’s a big club.

DD:  As if we live in a perfect world, brother, we do not live in a perfect world and like it or not, we are constantly faced with what I call situational ethics, now right is always right and wrong is always wrong, and faith teaches us that we are to do right, but there are some things I think that we need to discuss, we need to think about especially as it applies to the whole Judge Roy Moore thing.  I hear from Christians who said, “well, I can’t vote for him because ah, he, he has not come clean.  Judge Moore hasn’t come clean.”

Well, I try to take them back to the Bible,  which by the way, if the Bible were the basis, we wouldn’t be in the mess, this mess that we’re in right now.  The Bible requires that if you have aught against your brother, in other words, if Judge Moore did something to somebody , they have an obligation to go one-on-one first of all, and get it cards on the table.  If that doesn’t work for you, take another brother with you and if that doesn’t go work, then you then you announce it to the whole church, announce it to everybody.  In other words, you as we,  as we all know,  you are innocent until proven guilty.

Well, Judge Moore has been faced with something that was clearly, from a Biblical standpoint now, I’m always talking from a Biblical standpoint, these accusations that have come 40 years after the supposed event took place; it’s clearly beyond what is a Biblical response forty years later.  It’s an accusation Judge Roy Moore has no obligation, in my opinion, to have to answer to the public in a public venue something that happened forty years ago…” (38.11)

The interview of Dave Daubenmire continues, but I have stopped the transcription for the sake of discussing the main points presented in the above dialogue. The reader is welcome to review the entire broadcasts linked to in this post, in order to get the complete context of these videos.

Tracking The Leopard Meroz commentary on the above dialogue

Judge Roy Moore allegations which concerned acts which took place many years ago.  When those allegations came out just prior to election day, I ignored them because of the possibility it was a set-up–after all the statute of limitations had expired on the so-called acts which I had heard about.  But it was the responsibility of Alabama voters to decide whether or not these accusations, true or false, affected their decision to elect Moore as their Senator. 

Daubenmire tries to apply to this situation,  the  Matthew 18 method of dealing with personal sins against another church member. But were those young girls members of Roy Moore’s church? If so, given their ages, they would need to have had an adult represent them so as to protect them from the abuse of power and authority of an older man who was a District Attorney at the time.  The stories which came out about these types of incidents sound as if they were taking place at a mall, and high school games, and most likely did not involve Christian girls attending his church. Flip Benham’s defense of Moore, in which he asserted that when Moore had gotten out of the military, eligible women had already married, and therefore he had to seek out pure young girls, seems far fetched in light of the secular locations he was noted for attending.

Daubenmire’s assertion that because America is not ruled by the Bible, this nation is in a mess.

Again, Daubenmire appears to be ignorant of the Bible, and the history of Israel as a theocracy in the Old Testament. Israel had the Scriptures, and a God ordained form of government, yet the sins and unbelief of the individual citizens caused repeated judgments from the LORD, after repeated pleas for repentance from his prophets. Much of American law is Biblically based, and what we call case-law has been developed from the Scriptural model of using actual historical cases to exemplify a legal principle. While many of these laws and government institutions in America have been built on just principles, there has never been a point in our history where it can be said, Government is righteous.  Daubenmire uses the excuse that our government is now wicked to justify his refusal to pay taxes. Much of American government at various levels still functions as it should, and the credit for that belongs to the individuals who are employed in government jobs, attempting to do their jobs properly.

Are the reports from Kyle Mantyla of Right Wing Watch on Dave Daubenmire fair and accurate?

I have read a few articles in this respect, and overall, I found that Mantyla writes in a very precise style.  He has a good ability to summarize a main point and support it with facts and quotes.

The main problem with Dave Daubenmire is that his style of speaking is sloppy and he enjoys making statements which attract attention, but are not edifying to his listeners.  He is a poor expositor of the Bible, and he has no one to blame but himself,  if he cannot be understood. There is no reason why the context of his arguments should be outside of each individual video which he produces, for he is not giving a series of in-depth Biblical studies, where precept is built upon precept.

Journalists are not stalking others, if they continue to report on an ongoing topic of interest obtained from open sourced material.

Daubenmire brings up Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals as if this seventies book carries any real weight in present day leftist politics.

I read this book when I attended the University of Washington, during those long ago times when student demonstrations were taking place in the late sixties and early seventies in Seattle. It affected very few, and was not a mainstream book. So what if rule four, as Daubenmire says, advises that a radical leftist force his adversaries to live up to their own values?  Who cares?  When it comes to Christians, there should be a sincere concern for trying to live up to the high expectations of the Bible. If an adversary comprehends that the Christian is privileged to have wisdom and insight into the higher principles of life, is that not a good thing? Why do we find that the Christian Alternative Media ministries are always lowering the bar, and encouraging Christians to live as liars and law breakers in this world?