Flip Benham and the Vatican Roman Catholic Priest Frank Pavone: The Bait and Switch Gospel and The Conversion of Norma McCorvey, the “Roe” of Roe v.Wade

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we preached unto you, let him be accursed.  Galatians 1:6-8

Anyone who has any acquaintance with the Pro-Life Movement for the past forty years or so, knows that a deep doctrinal divide exists among those who lead protests against the abortion industry.  Overwhelmingly, the most publicized  Street Theater-style Protests have been lead by Roman Catholics and  Evangelical Christians who promote ecumenism. One of these who has joined hand in hand with Roman Catholic priests is Flip Benham, who became an ordained minister of the Free Methodist Church in 1980, and who was one of the speakers at the March 18-20, 2016 Hear The Watchmen Conference in Dallas. As these photos show, Flim Benham both preached to and baptized participants in the conference.

Photo of Flip Benham preaching at 2016 Hear The Watchmen conference

Photo of Flip Benham preaching at 2016 Hear The Watchmen conference

flip Benham hear watchmen march 2016 (2)

As a means of looking at the fruit of the ministry of Flip Benham, we are going to draw upon the writings of Pastor Ralph Ovadal of Pilgrims Covenant Church, Monroe, Wisconsin who has been one of the few active street preachers in the Pro-Life movement who has consistently exposed the dangers of being unequally unyoked with the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church.  He and his small congregation are known for their street preaching and public evangelism in Wisconsin.  His sermons can be listened to on sermonaudio.com which includes his broadcasts for the program “The Heart of The Matter”.  While I don’t know everything about Ralph Ovadal’s theology, it is clear that he practices what he preaches, he gives freely and does not covet anyone’s money, and he lays his beliefs on the line, so that there can be no misunderstanding on the listener’s part as to what he stands for.

Since Ralph Ovadal has been active from the beginning in the Pro-Life Movement, it is interesting to read some of his comments on Flip Benham.

Joe Hagmann being re-baptized at 2016 Hear The Watchmen conference by Flip Benham. Doug Hagmann has mentioned that at one he had attended a Catholic seminary in an earlier period of his life.

Joe Hagmann being re-baptized at 2016 Hear The Watchmen conference by Flip Benham. Doug Hagmann has mentioned that at one he had attended a Catholic seminary in an earlier period of his life.

On March 28, 2008 Pastor Ralph Ovadal wrote an online article for his Pilgrims Covenant Church website, entitled Will The Real Wimps Please Stand Up?  The first line of this article reads, “Rev. Flip Benham is criticizing conservative talk show hosts for not being more aggressive in holding Dr. Jeremiah Wright accountable for preaching another gospel”.  Dr. Jeremiah Wright, as we recall,  was Barak Obama’s pastor.   Flip Benham had written a press release, Rev. Wright is Wrong-Conservative Media Are Wimps.

Ovadal said in response,  “But it is ironic that he takes conservative talk show hosts to task for not speaking out more forcefully against an apostate pastor preaching  a different gospel  and an apostate church which has abandoned its rich Christian heritage and responsibility to stand on the Word of God.  In fact, when his very words are considered in context, they are consistent with the deception and surreal nature of the ecumenical pro-life/pro-family movement in America.”  Ralph Ovadal later asks, “If conservative talk show hosts are “wimps” for not being stronger in their criticism of Rev. Wright, what does that make an evangelical pastor who willingly joins in ministry with the Roman Catholic Church and accepts priests as Christian brothers?”

The end of this article says, “So, in light of the warm embrace and working partnership Rev. Benham and his Operation Save America/Operation Rescue maintain with the pope’s church which so arrogantly,  aggressively, and wickedly “opposes true biblical Christianity,” is it safe to ask whether the man and his organization are “pretend salt”?  Surely, the Roman Catholic Church “is not Christianity, and those of us who know better (real salt) need to say so.”

Four years earlier, in 2004, Pastor Ralph Ovadal wrote a book which can be read online at this link:  MORE THAN THESE:  A History of How the Pro-Life Movement Has Advanced The Cause of The Roman Catholic Church- A Call For Reformation. I have excerpted certain portions of Ovadal’s book to introduce you to the intent of the author, and also to reference a few interesting passages on Flip Benham, especially his part in the “conversion” of Norma McCorvey, the “Roe” in Roe v. Wade. I have added bold lettering to certain sentences to emphasize certain points.

Pages 10-11 of CHAPTER ONE, A Question Long In Need Of An Answer
 … lovest thou me more than these? John 21:15

My intent is to expose the extent to which Rome has systematically used the pro-life movement to advance her agenda and reputation, disciple professing Christians with Roman Catholic doctrine, and bring converts into the Roman fold.  It is a story of calculated strategy, exploited compassion, misplaced loyalty, dollar-driven ministries, and theological naiveté.  It is a strategy which will not only cause more babies, not fewer, to die in the long run but will also bring God’s chastisement upon many Christians if they do not repent of their ecumenical ways.  The ecumenical, pro-life movement is a historical, tragic reality from which Christians must learn a profound lesson.  Those who do not learn that lesson will suffer the consequences.

It is not enough to stand against evil in the name of the Lord. We must take that stand only in strict accordance to the immutable precepts laid down in the Word of God.  Further, we must constantly keep in mind that the building up of Christ’s Church and the preaching of His gospel is always to be our highest priority, never to be compromised. It is essential that we stay on our guard against the devil’s attempts to seduce us away from our first love and into spiritual adultery.  In Revelation, chapter two, we read a warning which our Lord gave to the church of Ephesus.  Unlike the ecumenical Christians in the pro-life movement, that church tested and exposed false brethren, including those that said they were apostles.

Pages 19-20 of CHAPTER 2,  Christians and Catholics Together…When?  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers…2 Corinthians 6:14

The Reverend Flip Benham is the national director of Operation Rescue/Operation Save America.  Reverend Benham has long been deeply involved with Roman Catholics, including priests, in pro-life ministry work.

Pages 96- 98, CHAPTER 5, Saddling Up The Beast
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Revelation 17:3

In 1994, Flip Benham took over the leadership of Operation Rescue.  He eventually added the name Operation Save America (OSA) to his organization’s Operation Rescue name….In conformity to the already established pattern, Benham continued the ecumenism of Randall Terry.  His stock-in-trade has been to bring together as brothers and sisters Catholics and Protestants…

Benham’s ministry has as its slogan “Jesus is the Standard”.  If only that statement were true!  It would weary the reader to hear of example after example in which Benham has yoked with Roman Catholics in the name of Christ and, in so doing, repudiated the command of our Lord to His people to live by “every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God” (Matthew 4:4) (Ralph Ovadal describes numerous examples of typical Operations Rescue/Operation Save America events)   ….the examples listed above should suffice to show that Reverend Benham and Operation Save America work hand-in-hand with Roman Catholics, including priests, in their ministry work.  The priests whom Benham regularly “ministers” with include Francis McClosky and Frank Pavone, who often preaches to “the Body of Christ” at OSA events.  Benham’s rallies and street ministry outings always have featured and still do feature, as I am writing this book, Catholics and Christians openly worshipping and praying together with sometimes tragic results, as we will see later.

Pages 77-78,  CHAPTER 4, The Catholic Pro-Life Players
Ye shall know them by their fruits.  Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?  Matthew 7:16

The more one is aware of him, the more one realizes that Priest Frank Pavone seems to be everywhere there are Protestants to influence….No one seemed to think it ironic that a representative of the Roman church, which tramples the first three commandments underfoot as a matter of official doctrine, had joined the Protestants in defense of the Ten Commandments!…In public, Pavone never misses a chance to convince Protestants that they are brothers and sisters with Roman Catholics….We will take a look the NPRC (National Pro-Life Religious Council) and delve further into Frank Pavone’s Protestant connections later along with the story behind Norma McCorvey’s testimony that “Father Pavone was “the catalyst that brought me into the Catholic Church”.  McCorvey is the “Roe” of Roe v. Wade. In 1995 while working for an abortion clinic, she was supposedly led to the Lord, born again, and baptized by Rev. Flip Benham, the national director of Operation Rescue/Operation Save America.  Then three years later she, she converted to Roman Catholicism.  The story of Norma McCorvey is a story that encapsulates the deceptions, dangers, and destruction which are at the heart of the ecumenism of the pro-life movement.

Pages 192-3 CHAPTER 8, Home to Rome Via The Pro-Life Movement
Enter ye in at the strait gate:  for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:  Matthew 7:13 

While we are dealing with Protestants being converted to Rome through pro-life ecumenism, it is important to remember that Christians who insist on doing pro-life ministry work with Roman Catholics also convince many non-believers that the Roman church is a Christian church.  Thus they play a role in leading searching individuals into the arms of Rome and the trap of the devil.

The story of Norma Corvey encompasses, in a way, both sorts of conversions.  McCorvey is the “Roe” of the infamous U. S. Supreme Court ruling which “legalized” abortion in America.  It was her court battle against a Texas law banning abortion which resulted in the Roe v. Wade  decision.  In 1995, Norma McCorvey professed faith in Jesus Christ and was baptized by the Reverend Flip Benham, the national director of Operation Rescue/Operation Save America.  Benham and his people had been witnessing to Norma, a lesbian, and sharing the gospel with her on a regular basis after OR/OSA moved into an office next door to the abortion clinic where she worked.  Christians across the nation and around the world were thrilled by the report that McCorvey had repented of her sins and put her faith in Christ for salvation.  Subsequent to her profession of faith and her baptism, Norma McCorvey went to work for Benham’s ministry.  But in 1998 she announced the desire to enter the Roman Catholic Church, and in August of that year, she did just that, as the Catholic News Service reported:

Norma McCorvey received the sacraments of holy Communion and confirmation and was fully accepted into the Catholic Church during a private Mass Aug. 17 at St. Thomas Aquinas Church in Dallas….Ms. McCorvey’s entrance into the church concludes a three-year journey that began with her baptism on August 8, 1995, by Rev. Flip Benham, director of Operation Rescue National.  From there, increased contact with Catholic pro-life leaders both inside and outside the Dallas diocese led her to announce June 15 that she had decided to become a Catholic…..

Note the key words in the account above.  After supposedly being led to Christ by Christian, pro-life activists and going to work with Operation Rescue, Norma McCorvey was subjected to “increased contact with Catholic pro-life leaders,” which in turn led her to “become a Catholic”.

Roman Catholics are taught that to escape eternal damnation, they must regularly receive the “real” body and blood of Christ administered by a Catholic priest.  The eucharist must be administered by a priest because, per Catholic law, only a priest has the supposed  power to call Christ down from heaven to “immolate” as a “helpless victim” on the Roman Catholic altar and turn into a wafer for the consumption of the faithful.  This satanic fable, the perversion of the Lord’s Table is just one of the many ways which the Roman church keeps hundreds of millions in bondage to Romanism.  Of course, Frank Pavone, who literally lives at the Vatican, defends, teaches, and performs the eucharist…..

Because Benham and Co. had refused to separate from that false brother and had rather ministered with him and assisted in his masquerade as a Christian, McCorvey  was disciplined to accept Catholics as Christians and their church as a Christian church, albeit a different denomination….

In light of the above words from Pastor Ovadal’s book, perhaps listeners to The Hagmann Report radio show and others in the Christian Alternative Media should become aware of the ecumenism which is promoted. Numerous false doctrines are advanced which include Roman Catholicism, Charismatic doctrines from both Pentecostal and Catholic perspectives, and Talmudic Kabbalism.

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.  Galatians 1:9

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Intercessory Nightmares

On June 6, 2013 Gaylene Goodroad of the Discernment Research Group posted on the Herescope blog a series of articles, with a lead title Techno-Dimensional Prayer CombatIt is well worth one’s time to consider the contents of the Herescope blog, if you are interested in an in-depth analysis of the theology undergirding much of the Christian Alternative Media. This theological view has been given the designation of  Postmodern Prophecy Paradigm, or PPP by authors Gaylene Goodroad and Sarah Leslie, who have researched  numerous books and articles written by the proponents of this viewpoint.  It includes those ideas advanced by Tom Horn, David Flynn, Paul McGuire, Steve Quayle, Russ Dizdar and other like-minded individuals.

don quixote tilting at windmills brass button

Brass button showing Don Quixote tilting at windmills

However, what I want you to focus on right now, is an interesting story contained in Goodroad’s article involving L. A. Marzulli and Russ Dizdar.  Both of these men are on the speaker roster of the 2016 Hear The Watchmen conference scheduled for Dallas next month.  The theme of this conference is that of a Crusade, with instructions to Saddle For Battle. Thus I will begin quoting Gaylene Goodroad’s article at the paragraph marked by the  subtitle,  Preparing To Engage Quetzalcoatl In Battle.

She relates, “An unsettling illustration of these un-biblical prayer warfare strategies unfolded during the months prior to the hysterical countdown to the failed 2012 Mayan Doomsdsay prophecies, which Herescope documented in detail, including in the article “12-21-12:  Evangelical Christians Believing Mayan Prophecies.” (23)  L. A. Marzulli, cited earlier as a PPP adherent with Latter Rain roots,(24) posted a 5-minute video on his blog in August 2012, appealing for funds ($12,000) from his flock,(25) so that he could travel with his entourage to the Mayan Pyramids in Chichen-Itza, Mexico on December 21, 2012 (the Winter Solstice)(26) – in order to do battle with the pagan god Quetzalcoatl who was expected to manifest on that date – “sort of like Elijah against the prophets of Baal.”(27)”

“Calling Chichen-Itza a “power place,” “ground zero,” and “the belly of the beast” with regard to its “open portals” of demonic activity, Marzulli enlisted the company of Russ Dizdar (author of The Black Awakening:  Rise of The Satanic Super Soldier),(28) Richard Grund (Director/Team Leader the Supernatural Response Team (SRT), (29) Larry Barrett, and Watchers videographer, Richard Shaw, to document the event.  The team, said Marzulli, was needed to “assist in the spiritual warfare we expect to happen there…”(30) Marzulli went on to explain his intended warfare:”

This is an amazing opportunity to represent the kingdom of God – to stand in the way of or possibly to confront what may manifest there on December 21st- the so-called return of the Mayan god, Quetzalcoatl…We feel that something is going to happen there.  Hopefully, nothing will happen there.  If it does, we’re going to engage in warfare and shut this thing down.(31) (bold added).”

“Although he initially assured potential Chichen-Itza donors that God was leading the effort to send out this spiritual warfare team, just days before he was set to fly into “the belly of the beast,”  Marzulli abruptly aborted the mission.  In a December 14 notice on his website, entitled “A Redirect from the Captain of the Hosts,” Marzulli reported that his daughter had been given a disturbing “prophetic dream” that revealed his kidnapping and murder by Mexican cartels.  “She awoke from her dream and was greatly disturbed.  She prayed and went back to sleep.  Then another dream occurred.  In it she saw a burst of light followed by a voice that instructed, Don’t go!‘ (32)”

Gaylene Goodroad ends this account of Marzulli’s adventure, saying, “Marzulli and his PPP spiritual warfare team never made it to the Mayan Pyramids.  The $14,000 raised by his flock was lost to Power Places Tours,(33) not to mention the loss of biblical discernment for all those involved with this ungodly endeavor.”

As you consider the false bravado of L.A. Marzulli, Russ Dizdar and their entourage who thought they could withstand the Mayan god Quetzacoatl, but ended up shaking with fear because of a daughter’s nightmare, so that God’s will was quickly cast aside, let us fast forward to events of this past week in this Alternative Universe.  The following QAlert  was sent out to millions of readers of Steve Quayle.com on February 25, 2016 concerning an incident which was said to have occurred the evening before.q alert 225 2016 (2)Now if this report is true, we are in agreement with Steve Quayle, that this attack on Timothy Alberino and his family is unconscionable, and needs to be resisted both by prayer and other types of actions. The problem, of course, is that similar QAlerts have been issued in the past by a hysterical Steve Quayle,  who afterwards leaves his readers wondering  what really went on.  I am especially curious what  Quayle means by a full scale operation had been launched.  His reference to Wednesday night would be February 24, 2016, and as I note in the next paragraph, Intercessors are pushed to the forefront of the  February 25, 2016 Paul McGuire interview on the Hagmann Report.

This particular interview centers heavily around Paul McGuire’s latest book, and also his upcoming speaking engagement at the Hear The Watchmen conference.  While McGuire says that he spends many hours a day researching, what he actually offers up for discussion are certain themes boringly common to most Alternative Media discourse on the internet. It is as if the so-called Christian Alternative Media has set up a Windmill with the blades of  Illuminati/Communist/Nazi/Main Stream Media influences on our nation, which these Don Quixotes  in turn attack, in fulfillment of some strong delusion that they are God anointed Watchmen.   Paul McGuire, who bills himself as a Senior Pastor of a local church whose physical location he refuses to disclose, also wants us to believe that he is an internationally recognized prophecy expert. And of course he is altruistic to the max, stating at the beginning of this interview that he is not getting paid for the interview, and does not want any compensation.  He also says that it took him years to get where he is today, influencing millions to listen to his “gospel”(translate DONATE) cause.

One of the tiresome qualities of the friendships of these men in the Inner Circle of Trust is their constant  flattery of one towards another.  And this interview reeks to high heaven with Hagmann’s over-the-top heaping of praise for McGuire and  his latest drivel in book format. The other day I read a comment from a woman on another blog which asserted that Doug and Joe Hagmann and Dave Hodges were only babes in Christ, and therefore exempt from critical scrutiny.  So I am glad to report that Doug Hagmann “got religion” in this interview,  pausing  a couple of times to give explicit directions to the  Intercessors to pray for Paul McGuire.  Normally, this is something that we are used to Steve Quayle doing; but tonight it is Hagmann who is letting the world know that  spiritual warfare intercessors are listening to the broadcast and interceding.

Paul McGuire espouses a theology which places a heavy emphasis on the Supernatural Powers of God, which he says can be downloaded by the believer just as one downloads computer Apps. Leading in a prayer for America near the end of the interview, he said that those who had joined him in prayer that night and have the spirit of God would feel a resonating in themselves. This sounds similar to what the Mormons identify as the burning in the bosom, a confirmation sign of the presence of God. If one reads the testimonies of many Charismatics, their beliefs are often founded on manifestations, rather than on the words of God.  To this the Bible gives warning in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the mystery of iniquity, “whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders” is allowed by God as Strong Delusion to be sent to those, as a damnation, who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.  Doug Hagmann at one point in his interview refers to Paul McGuire as The Tip of the Spear. And again he reiterates the Hear The Watchmen Crusade call to action, to Saddle For Battle!don-quixote

The last few minutes of this interview are dedicated to reproving those who have blogs and webpages “devoted to criticizing the brethren”.  We must note here that while the Hagmanns and McGuire retain the right of free speech for themselves, they do not consider that their detractors retain the same rights.   Consider for a moment that the Hagmanns and McGuire claim to reach millions with their words. How many blogs are there at this moment actively critiquing the words and deeds of these noble Watchmen?  And how many readers do these blogs actually have?

In the past couple of years, there were at least a half  dozen blogs which  had written articles on  this particular Inner Circle of Trust. Most of these writers are presently busy with other matters. Of interest is that Tom Horn’s book, Blood on The Altar  directs its venom against those who have written against a group of men which form the PPP, the Postmodern Prophecy Paradigm.  The primary researchers and writers who undertook this daunting task are Gaylene Goodroad and Sarah H. Leslie of the Herescope blog.  Unlike my blog which critiques the outer layer of deceit, the Discernment Research Group of Herescope delved into the depths of these false prophets, watchmen, and  authority figures.

Back in 2011, after confronting face to face, a series of men who were complicit in a spiritual attack which had been conducted against my young teen daughter, I began a blog called Starlitgardens.  It had one reader who I personally know, who is a Defender of the priesthood of the leopard Meroz. Later it seemed I had two readers, and I wondered if there were actually two persons, or just one disguised as two.  Later, I got tired of the bantering about of occult stuff, and I erased all those posts, and Starlitgardens became a blog to post sewing, gardening and painting projects and miscellaneous family photos.

In 2013 I began this blog,  Tracking the Leopard Meroz, with the intent of examining some things in my own background which led to my tracking of a sorcerer who is a Master of the Numbers of the Scriptures. This sorcerer is like Balaam, who was hired to curse or bless others. One of the real persons I faced off with in Texas claimed responsibility for causing the rash of teen suicides in Plano, Texas years ago.  Well, I dabbled around with several things on my blog, and then there was a six month period when I wrote nothing. Outside of this blog, I like to spend time with family and neighbors and church folk, garden, cook, clean, babysit, sew, paint, do volunteer work, laugh, look at the stars on a clear night, slosh around the beaches on the gulf coast…..

And then in February 2015, I began to observe the Christian Alternative Media closely.  But by the end of 2015, I decided to walk away from this tiresome mess, and began to write a book on my blog called The Art of Guileless Guile. However, in January of 2016 the Nathan Leal/Broer controversy surfaced, and I decided to flow down this river a bit longer.  At this point my readership has grown to a maximum of 143 per day.  It is hard to gauge how many individual regular readers I have, as some people check in once a week or once a month.  When a couple of days ago, I received an email from someone which asserted that it was my blog which the Hagmanns and McGuire were complaining about in the February 25th interview, I was surprised.

Now here is a curiosity:  a couple of days ago I received 54 troll-type comments; some of which were pornographic and threatening.  Thirty-two of these comments were attached to the Paul McGuire, Pastor of the Mailbox Church article, one was attached to a Nathan Leal post, and the remaining were attached to my John B. Wells/Doug Hagmann post.  At the same time a man shoved his way in front of me at the grocery store in an intimidating manner.  As I had just said hello to a lady from church, I was caught off guard, so when this person “got in my face”,  I reacted by walking away.  And now someone is claiming that I am the thorn in the side of the mighty Christian men of the Alternative Media.  Compared to the webpages of the Hagmanns, McGuire, Quayle and others, my little blog is just a little cork floating in an internet ocean.  Rather than addressing the issues I bring up regarding their PSY-OP methodologies, these Watchmen continue on, and on, and on, tempting God to judge them.

The one thing which shocks most people who have first heard of my “reputation” and then later meet me face-to-face, is that I am a soft spoken, shy person.  The battles which I have personally had to engage in over the years were entered in by me,  only because there were no other defenders, and I had been backed into a corner.  By temperament, I am not a fighter.  That I have held my own against wicked men is a surprise to me, and a display of the grace and mercy of God.  It would appear that all Christians, and even the least, which I am, are required to stand and withstand in the evil day.

If I had to name one main motive behind the writing of this blog,  it is to encourage Christians to develop their critical thinking skills and to learn to stand alone, if necessary, for Christian truth.

If indeed the Hagmanns and McGuire were taking aim at my Tracking the Leopard Meroz blog, I would just like to remind these false Watchmen, that I am an Intercessory Nightmare, as others like you, have found out.  God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty…that no flesh should glory in his presence…He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. ( excerpts from I Corinthians 1:27-31)

For those of you who will be attending the Crusade-Saddle for Battle conference in Dallas, have you remembered to check with the hotel about accommodations for your horse?  There may be restrictions against Old Nellie (I am not talking about your wife!) sleeping in the same room as you, in that extra queen sized bed. A reminder that the All-You-Can-Eat Salad Bar is for people only.  THINK!    As Steve Quayle is always saying, People just don’t understand…This is Critical!!!  And rumor has it, that he will not be attending this event.

 

 

The King of Jousters, John B. Wells and his ARK Knight-errant, Sir Douglas Hagmann Give A Private Exhibition of their Prowess

One of the Hear The Watchmen conference speakers is John B. Wells of Caravan To Midnight.com, who formerly was the Saturday host on Coast to Coast AM.com. john b wells caravan to midnight logoOn his home page he is offering a $50 off coupon on the upcoming March, Dallas conference, plus a chance to win a drawing for a dinner for two with JohnB and crew.

Looking over his website, I had been unaware before today, that he sold heirloom seeds, packaged food, electronic filters, a Soladey tooth brush, water filtration, radiation detection, a radio frequency detection meter and shield, shirts, hats, cups, a mousepad, a keychain, stickers and ten books. After becoming used to the same old repeat guests on the Hagmann and Hagmann radio show, I was impressed with the number of different guests which John B. Wells has interviewed.  However, to listen, one must become a subscriber at the rate of $5 per month.

John B. Wells was the Saturday host for Coast to Coast prior to setting up his own website Caravan To Midnight

John B. Wells was the Saturday host for Coast to Coast prior to setting up his own website Caravan To Midnight

One of the interesting features of the Our Guests Page of Caravan To Midnight is that currently 62 men and women on this extensive list have been knighted and given the title of Sir or Dame.john b wells ark knight  A  shield reading ARK KNIGHT with two crossed swords and the Caravan To Midnight logo is displayed to the right of the recipient’s short biography.  Of interest to us in regard to the Hear The Watchmen conference is that in the beginning, the speaker roster included John B. Wells and four of his knights: Nathan Leal, Dr. Ted Broer, Doug Hagmann and L. A. Marzulli.

As we learned later, Nathan Leal went public with a controversy he had with Dr. Ted Broer, who had appeared on the Hagmann Report radio show, regarding his perverting of the gospel by New Age ideas.  Then these two men were removed from the roster of speakers, causing a rift between the supporters of Leal with the conference organizers and Hagmann, Lankford and Quayle.  Pastor David Lankford, who has not been knighted by John B. Wells,  then discussed the Leal matter on the Hagmann Report with Sir Steve Quayle, who is an ARK Knight.  Presently the ARK Knights which are speaking at the March Dallas conference are Doug Hagmann, L. A. Marzulli, and Josh Tolley.  Guests on the John B. Wells show which did not make knighthood include Paul McGuire, Mike and Jeanie Moore, Joe Hagmann, Michael Boldea, Jr., Pastor David Lankford, Russ Dizdar, Billy Crone, Gregg Jackson and Sheila Zilinsky.  However several in this group did speak in a Roundtable Discussion led by Sheila Zilinsky, explaining their “vision” of what the up-coming conference would entail.john b wells leal ark knight (2)john b wells broer ark knight (2)john b wells hagmann ark knight (2)

(As an aside, readers of this blog may find it interesting that Timonthy Alberino, Stan Deyo, Anthony Patch, and Steve Quayle are ARK Knights; whereas, Tom Horn, Chris Putnam, Jonathan Cahn, John Little, Larry Nichols, Rick Wiles, Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers, and John W. Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute are not.)

On February 3, 2016 John B. Wells celebrated his second anniversary of his Caravan To Midnight program, by bringing on Sir Douglas Hagmann as his first guest.  At the 14:34 mark of this audio, they discuss the Hear The Watchmen Conference.

John B. Wells:  Doug, I want to get into something that may be a little bit uncomfortable and I ah defer to you ah by saying that.  I mean, you’re the last guy I’d ambush with something on this but I gotta tell you, I’ve got some concerns over the Hear The Watchmen conference.  I want to discuss them with you.

Doug Hagmann:  Sure.

JBW:  How many names does Brother Mike have, exactly?

DH:  Well, to my knowledge there is only one.

JBW:  That is what I’ve been thinking.  But he seems to have more than one.

DH:  Well, are you I mean, if you’re talking about internet presence or handles or whatever you know, I don’t know..I mean I’ve got Hagmann PI for example for Skype and for other things. But in terms of legal names, I’ve only heard him use one and seen him use one, uhmm correct me if I’m wrong.

JBW:  Well, you know I’m going to be there no matter what, unless I get kicked off the program which is, that remains to be seen, but here’s the thing.

DH:(laughs)

JBW:  I know that Nathan Leal was cross with Ted Broer.

DH:  Right.

JBW:  And look, this is a closed deal.  I am not talking with anyone who is not aware of this.  We got a lot of people that are coming to Hear The Watchmen and here’s the thing and I’m saying this.  I’m not trying to be like Mr. Lilywhite here, but it doesn’t matter to me if I have one member of the Caravan, and I’m going to be honest with them and I don’t want them walking into anything.  I don’t want them to be disappointed, I don’t want to wonder ah, ah, I don’t want them to question the validity, the integrity, the veracity, of what we are trying to do here.  This is effectively a spiritual revival.  Now we are not going to play with snakes or any of that.  I mean that’s what this is.  And then Nathan took exception to Ted’s combining of what he perceived to be um what parthianism or something like this- pantheism- that’s the word I’m looking for, and uh by the time it’s all over with, Nathan is gone.  Then I saw this letter from John Little.

DH:  Right.

JBW:  Then I watched the interview with Pastor Lankford and Stephen Quayle.  I don’t know Lankford, but I know Quayle well enough and ah they didn’t use his name but it’s pretty obvious that they were talking about Nathan Leel, or Leal, so here’s the thing. Has anybody, has anybody thought that the enemy Lucifer, Satan, Beelzebub, or whatever, he’s got a bunch of names too.  Has it occurred to anybody that the enemy would like to destroy this?  Has it occurred to anybody that the enemy which exists as surely as the Holy Spirit, has it occurred to anybody that we should as Little pointed out in his article, go to the aid of our brother in Christ and straighten this out instead of excoriating him like that?  I mean we are under assault.

Yeah, you people think  you’re just going to get together your little revival and everything and it’s going to be fine.  You think the Devil’s just going to sit it out.  He wants to kill your A-S-S.  That’s what he wants.  And if he can’t get that, if he can’t overdose you on heroin then he’ll settle for getting you in prison for ten years for selling it or buying it or being seen with someone who has it, and then maybe you can be sodomized in prison.  Oh that might be a real delight for the enemy.

So when we put together our little hand holding revival, do we really think that we’re going to be free from assaults?  And  I gotta tell you, I like Brother Mike; his wife makes some damn good toffee.  But I’ll also tell you this, I’ve looked back through some of the things which have been written about him including Orange County publications, and I’m not really liking what I’m seeing.  On the other hand, you’ve said yes I’ve had kind of a rough ride here and there; life’s been rough in spots.  I gave my life over to Jesus and it’s OK. It’s like well that’s fine, but it’s also written in scripture that that doesn’t clear you of the consequences.  So what do we do about this?  Where are we, Doug, seriously?

DH:  Well, if I can speak about Mike..

JBW:  Speak about anything you want.

DH:  And I’ve not talked to Mike, the conference organizer, or Jeannie about this – we didn’t script this so, let me be perfectly frank with everyone and up front and honest.  Umm the ah OK, for those people who don’t know what we’re talking about, then don’t worry about it.  It’s, it’s for those people who do.  Umm those of you I’ll address  in this fashion ah we had , we had a situation where Ted Broer came on our program and used some New Age terminology and Nathan Leal took exception to that, OK, fine.  Umm that whole, that whole thing has been, in my view, has been handled.

But what has come the, the fruits of this, has come up about this is Mike,  the conference organizer has ah, ah, and I didn’t know this until I received an email about this had some issues with organizing conferences, OK.  There were some nasty ex-wife and nasty ex-husband and someone else involved that really lit him up in the media in Orange County, about conference organization.  And this is back before he was saved.  So, ah what this is my understanding, OK, what my understanding is this.  Mike and Jeannie had, Mike wanted to make right the reputation, his reputation, and he went into this conference planning with that understanding above board, look I want, I want to, he said I want to clear my name.  I want to make right with this.  I want to have a conference that’s free of any kind of umm BS, free of any controversy.  And he enlisted um some people uh to help do that, in fact one of the very names I mentioned that is no longer part of the conference- Nathan Leal- it’s my understanding is that’s how it was.

You know, look help me, let’s do this conference and bring some good people together.  Help me clear my name but in so doing, help, let me, um..let’s give the people who are coming this spiritual revival and informational conference.  Well, apparently eh eh something went sideways when, when the scheduling, when the formatting of the conference was not to other people’s liking.  And that prompted the ah, they ah, this mass emailing of Mike’s past.  When that was already decided.  When that was already known to individuals- certain individuals, in my understanding, key individuals, said look, I’m doing this, Mike’s saying I’m doing this not just for the event, but also to clear my name.  Yet that information, John, was weaponized.  That was weaponized against him.  Now I’m not apologizing for Mike’s past, but I’ll say this.  I  asked him directly when I first got that email.  I asked him two questions:  I said Number One, Is it true because I, you know, I can go and find out myself.  And Number Two, do you have oversight?  Outside of yourself and Jeannie and such, for to make sure that rooms are paid for and the money-the accounting of all the money.  He said yes to both.

And the third question, the last question that I asked him, would you allow the oversight you know to make sure that no one is hurt.  And he said sure, so the bottom line is this, after all this crud uh, you, Gregg Jackson, others uh, uh Pastor Lankford, we’re all going to be there, Russ, we’re all going to be a part of this conference as invitees.  Umm, we, I mean, boy, what am I going to say, we did not plan it.  You and I didn’t plan this, we were invited to this, that’s our level of involvement.  But we have to trust the very people who are organizing this.  Can we trust them?  Absolutely.  Are we going to deliver a great product?  Absolutely.  But what you said too when something is organized that has good in it, it’s always a target to those people who want to tear something down.  But see the bottom line here is what I really really, what is distasteful to me is people who insert themselves into a controversy.

And they exacerbate the controversy only for their own gain while look, somebody will say, I am protecting the flock and then they will insert themselves into the controversy only to exacerbate the situation and further..

JBW:  A case could be made for me doing that right now, but I’m OK with it because I’m somewhat of a  confrontational person.  I don’t just let it lie there, because it will get worse if you do usually.

DH:  Well you know, we haven’t even addressed this on our program only, because, so you’re getting my first viewpoint from me but here’s the situation.  I think uh uh at the end of the day, this conference is going to be good.  I really believe for everyone involved it will be beneficial to the people coming.  It’s going to be great- great speakers like yourself and Gregg Jackson and L.A Marzulli, Russ Dizdar’s going to be there.  So many great people.  It’s going to be beneficial.  Yeah there are going to be people tearing this down and, and before hand and after, you know, and during or up to the event itself.  So you have to look at it from a couple of different directions, but the bottom line with me is, folks, what you think you know about any controversy, trust me, you don’t know it all.  There’s a huge back story and people are trying to use you and game you and it’s it’s all at the end of the day It’ll all come out, but ah you know.  So I, it’s going to be a great event. I’m looking forward to meeting you.  I’m looking forward to meeting with Russ and meeting Greg Jackson and everyone on that list, so it’s going to be a fun time.  And it’s an informational time.  I’m really looking forward to it.  I hope that answers your question.  But I don’t know if I’ve been all your question.  I don’t know if I’ve been all over the place but, or if I caused more..

JBW:  No, no you didn’t.  It’s like I ah you know it’s a sad thing about facing your giants.  I don’t want anybody walking in to anything, I don’t want to walk into anything, I want to walk into stuff with my eyes open and knowing what I’m walking into and so if there is stuff whirling around, I either want to validate it or quash it.  One of the two.

DH:  Sure.

JBW:  But I mean there, there’s stuff that’s been levied against Brother Mike because the latest thing I’ve seen is 2010.  Course now that’s six  years ago.  So like you say anything can be weaponized, I mean ah oh well he didn’t pay a parking ticket or whatever you know.  I think we know how media in general can blow things up.  It makes you wonder sometimes what would be the media’s interest including NPR in trying to put Mike on the spot.  You have to wonder what’s the motivation behind that.

DH:  Oh, yeah.  And, and you know, look I think that anyone , anyone of reasonable sensibilities would look at something like this and say well, gee whiz, what’s going on, with you know, the ah, conference organizers of the conference had some pretty bad conferences and allegations levied against them.  What’s the deal?  Well, how are you going to change that perception if you are not going to someone who you trust and say, look I want to change this.  This is a hatchet job, I want to change this.  Let’s do a Christ conference.  Let’s have everything above board and let’s really put together a great conference and then only to have that information, that confidence breached, by someone you trust?  Come on man!  Weaponized against you?  You know so many __(?) yeah there are, and I’ve told privately Steve Quayle I’ve interviewed people, I’ve interviewed inmates in Attica and Rikers for my job and let me tell you something ah from what I’ve seen from some people, I’d much rather at least going into Attica and Rikers, I know what I’m dealing with.

JBW:  Right.

DH:  OK, ah some of the people who proclaim to be forgiving Christians who have their ah email and some of the emails I’ve gotten are the most vile,  vicious emails I’ve ever seen but having said that at least I knew what I was going into but but the problem with people is that they look at,  take someone’s word for it. The internet is the Wild West. Take your..  Here’s what I’m writing, well check it out.  Yeah, if that one slice of information and this goes for anything whether it’s Oregon or the conference or it doesn’t matter, they take a slice of information and they build their own perception from that and in the investigative world that that I’m involved in, that’s called really kind of a paralysis of analysis.  You look at just one little slice of something and you make decisions based on their perceptions, you have based on that.  Man that gets you every time; so widen your perspective, take a  few steps back, think about  rationally, about it, and then go forward.  So..

JBW:  You know, and this is the whole reason, the whole reason and nothing but the reason OK, yeah that’s what it is ah and a nice lady named Vicky sent an email…( they discuss the email which encourages them, and they veer off on a positive note of community, and we are all a family)

Here are my comments on just a few of the Talking Points of this rather obscure discussion of the problems surrounding the Hear The Watchmen, March conference in Dallas.

  1.  How many names does Brother Mike have, exactly?  Hagmann says one, but Wells says more than one.  They do not mention that the name of the organizer of this conference is Mike Kerr, who on his Facebook page and elsewhere referred to himself as Mike Whitestone.  Apparently he has been known to use the Moore name of his wife, Jeannie Moore.  The Facebook name Mike Whitestone later added a reference to the name Mike Kerr, after this question of his legal identity was questioned.
  2. Nathan Leal was cross with Ted Broer.   I had listened to the audio explaining why Leal had resigned from the conference, and I do not find the word cross (as meaning angry)  to be descriptive of the concerns  which Leal reluctantly identified in  great detail, regarding the co-mingling of New Age ideas with a Christian gospel.
  3. The conference is a spiritual revival. Given the warnings in the Bible regarding the merchandising of the Holy Spirit’s work and the Name of God, I am doubtful that any revival at this meeting will be anything other than the works of the flesh. However, I surely hope that their prayers asking for repentance will indeed be answered.  There was a great display of emotionally tinged speech which came forth from the conference speakers during the Sheila Zilinksy, Weekend Vigilante Round Table program of February 4, 2016.   John the Baptist said in Luke 3:8a, Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance
  4. Mike has a credibility problem with regard to his past which should be overlooked.  Hagmann says that the source of Mike’s problems with the Orange County publications (which wrote scathing reports on Mike Kerr’s handling of large scale events to benefit Veterans), arose because of retribution from ex-spouses and others.  However, these reports quoted others who had worked with Kerr, who found that he did not display integrity.  As usual,  the excuse is that this was “before he was saved”, overlooking the fact that many pagans do not display a lack of integrity in those same situations.  Whenever anyone has shown a lack of integrity in the managing of events involving money, it is better that they find a new line of work, whether they be saved or not.  This continual excusing of crooked individuals, whether it be Mike Kerr or a religious charlatan such as  Jim Bakker, always seems to bring a reproach against the name of Christ.  Hagmann says he asked the conference organizers if they had “oversight”?  Mike Kerr said yes, but there is no name mentioned of the person/s who have this responsibility.  The idea that Mike could clear his past reputation by holding an expensive Christian conference is nonsense.  If such a motive did in fact exist, it would have been publicized in the very beginning.  This cover story would seem to have been concocted for this Caravan To Midnight show.  Let me remind the reader, that there is great profit to be made in large scale conferences, even though it was publicized as being a non-profit event.  Most of these so called non-profit events include large salaries for the conference organizers.  Had this event gone as planned with 1,000 persons attending, paying $100-105 per ticket, the revenues for a three day period would be about $100,000-105,000.  Subtract the expenses involved in renting a hotel conference room, speaker’s fees and expenses, and miscellaneous costs, the remainder goes into the pocket of the organizer.  Recall that a separate Go-Fund-me account for $100,000 had been set up to accept donations to bring vets to the conference.  Since there was adverse publicity, it appears that most tickets have probably been discounted by $50 as shown on the Toffee website, and also John B. Wells show.  If this is the case, then revenues would have dropped to $50,000 if all 1,000 tickets were sold.  Mike threatened Nathan Leal with a lawsuit for lost revenues, and it appears that Hagmann and Dave Hodges also threatened Leal with fair use of their radio show audios.
  5. The facts concerning Mike Kerr were weaponized by those whose motives were their own personal gain and their love of exacerbating controversy. Such people are not excused by saying they are protecting the flock.   While the truth about Mike Kerr’s character had been covered up by himself and others, when the facts came out for the potential conference attendees to consider, Hagmann says that wrong motives caused this information to be weaponized.  In reading the articles which brought forth this information, it would appear that the writer was distressed over having to be placed in such an awkward position.  Many of the comments on websites and forums reveal that the writers were also disturbed by this information, but were also ready to overlook this matter if true repentance were displayed.   I am not aware of a time in which  Hagmann has ever revealed “the vile and vicious contents of the emails” he purportedly received.  Given that his own character has been in question for so long, as to the integrity of the information which he reports, I cannot trust his word on this matter.  He still says in this audio, “Trust me”, but fails to consider the number of false government and financial insiders which he has deceived his listeners with over the last few years.  How charitable is it to rail against persons who are professing Christians, and declare that you would rather interview the inmates at Attica and Rikers, who are probably in prison for heinous crimes?
Until those men who merchandise the name of Christ for their own personal gain repent, and start to consider the Scriptural underpinnings of their own sins, it would seem wise that those who profess to love Jesus Christ and his words, reconsider their support and encouragement of such enterprises.