One of the Hear The Watchmen conference speakers is John B. Wells of Caravan To Midnight.com, who formerly was the Saturday host on Coast to Coast AM.com. On his home page he is offering a $50 off coupon on the upcoming March, Dallas conference, plus a chance to win a drawing for a dinner for two with JohnB and crew.
Looking over his website, I had been unaware before today, that he sold heirloom seeds, packaged food, electronic filters, a Soladey tooth brush, water filtration, radiation detection, a radio frequency detection meter and shield, shirts, hats, cups, a mousepad, a keychain, stickers and ten books. After becoming used to the same old repeat guests on the Hagmann and Hagmann radio show, I was impressed with the number of different guests which John B. Wells has interviewed. However, to listen, one must become a subscriber at the rate of $5 per month.
One of the interesting features of the Our Guests Page of Caravan To Midnight is that currently 62 men and women on this extensive list have been knighted and given the title of Sir or Dame. A shield reading ARK KNIGHT with two crossed swords and the Caravan To Midnight logo is displayed to the right of the recipient’s short biography. Of interest to us in regard to the Hear The Watchmen conference is that in the beginning, the speaker roster included John B. Wells and four of his knights: Nathan Leal, Dr. Ted Broer, Doug Hagmann and L. A. Marzulli.
As we learned later, Nathan Leal went public with a controversy he had with Dr. Ted Broer, who had appeared on the Hagmann Report radio show, regarding his perverting of the gospel by New Age ideas. Then these two men were removed from the roster of speakers, causing a rift between the supporters of Leal with the conference organizers and Hagmann, Lankford and Quayle. Pastor David Lankford, who has not been knighted by John B. Wells, then discussed the Leal matter on the Hagmann Report with Sir Steve Quayle, who is an ARK Knight. Presently the ARK Knights which are speaking at the March Dallas conference are Doug Hagmann, L. A. Marzulli, and Josh Tolley. Guests on the John B. Wells show which did not make knighthood include Paul McGuire, Mike and Jeanie Moore, Joe Hagmann, Michael Boldea, Jr., Pastor David Lankford, Russ Dizdar, Billy Crone, Gregg Jackson and Sheila Zilinsky. However several in this group did speak in a Roundtable Discussion led by Sheila Zilinsky, explaining their “vision” of what the up-coming conference would entail.
(As an aside, readers of this blog may find it interesting that Timonthy Alberino, Stan Deyo, Anthony Patch, and Steve Quayle are ARK Knights; whereas, Tom Horn, Chris Putnam, Jonathan Cahn, John Little, Larry Nichols, Rick Wiles, Stewart Rhodes of Oath Keepers, and John W. Whitehead of the Rutherford Institute are not.)
On February 3, 2016 John B. Wells celebrated his second anniversary of his Caravan To Midnight program, by bringing on Sir Douglas Hagmann as his first guest. At the 14:34 mark of this audio, they discuss the Hear The Watchmen Conference.
John B. Wells: Doug, I want to get into something that may be a little bit uncomfortable and I ah defer to you ah by saying that. I mean, you’re the last guy I’d ambush with something on this but I gotta tell you, I’ve got some concerns over the Hear The Watchmen conference. I want to discuss them with you.
Doug Hagmann: Sure.
JBW: How many names does Brother Mike have, exactly?
DH: Well, to my knowledge there is only one.
JBW: That is what I’ve been thinking. But he seems to have more than one.
DH: Well, are you I mean, if you’re talking about internet presence or handles or whatever you know, I don’t know..I mean I’ve got Hagmann PI for example for Skype and for other things. But in terms of legal names, I’ve only heard him use one and seen him use one, uhmm correct me if I’m wrong.
JBW: Well, you know I’m going to be there no matter what, unless I get kicked off the program which is, that remains to be seen, but here’s the thing.
JBW: I know that Nathan Leal was cross with Ted Broer.
JBW: And look, this is a closed deal. I am not talking with anyone who is not aware of this. We got a lot of people that are coming to Hear The Watchmen and here’s the thing and I’m saying this. I’m not trying to be like Mr. Lilywhite here, but it doesn’t matter to me if I have one member of the Caravan, and I’m going to be honest with them and I don’t want them walking into anything. I don’t want them to be disappointed, I don’t want to wonder ah, ah, I don’t want them to question the validity, the integrity, the veracity, of what we are trying to do here. This is effectively a spiritual revival. Now we are not going to play with snakes or any of that. I mean that’s what this is. And then Nathan took exception to Ted’s combining of what he perceived to be um what parthianism or something like this- pantheism- that’s the word I’m looking for, and uh by the time it’s all over with, Nathan is gone. Then I saw this letter from John Little.
JBW: Then I watched the interview with Pastor Lankford and Stephen Quayle. I don’t know Lankford, but I know Quayle well enough and ah they didn’t use his name but it’s pretty obvious that they were talking about Nathan Leel, or Leal, so here’s the thing. Has anybody, has anybody thought that the enemy Lucifer, Satan, Beelzebub, or whatever, he’s got a bunch of names too. Has it occurred to anybody that the enemy would like to destroy this? Has it occurred to anybody that the enemy which exists as surely as the Holy Spirit, has it occurred to anybody that we should as Little pointed out in his article, go to the aid of our brother in Christ and straighten this out instead of excoriating him like that? I mean we are under assault.
Yeah, you people think you’re just going to get together your little revival and everything and it’s going to be fine. You think the Devil’s just going to sit it out. He wants to kill your A-S-S. That’s what he wants. And if he can’t get that, if he can’t overdose you on heroin then he’ll settle for getting you in prison for ten years for selling it or buying it or being seen with someone who has it, and then maybe you can be sodomized in prison. Oh that might be a real delight for the enemy.
So when we put together our little hand holding revival, do we really think that we’re going to be free from assaults? And I gotta tell you, I like Brother Mike; his wife makes some damn good toffee. But I’ll also tell you this, I’ve looked back through some of the things which have been written about him including Orange County publications, and I’m not really liking what I’m seeing. On the other hand, you’ve said yes I’ve had kind of a rough ride here and there; life’s been rough in spots. I gave my life over to Jesus and it’s OK. It’s like well that’s fine, but it’s also written in scripture that that doesn’t clear you of the consequences. So what do we do about this? Where are we, Doug, seriously?
DH: Well, if I can speak about Mike..
JBW: Speak about anything you want.
DH: And I’ve not talked to Mike, the conference organizer, or Jeannie about this – we didn’t script this so, let me be perfectly frank with everyone and up front and honest. Umm the ah OK, for those people who don’t know what we’re talking about, then don’t worry about it. It’s, it’s for those people who do. Umm those of you I’ll address in this fashion ah we had , we had a situation where Ted Broer came on our program and used some New Age terminology and Nathan Leal took exception to that, OK, fine. Umm that whole, that whole thing has been, in my view, has been handled.
But what has come the, the fruits of this, has come up about this is Mike, the conference organizer has ah, ah, and I didn’t know this until I received an email about this had some issues with organizing conferences, OK. There were some nasty ex-wife and nasty ex-husband and someone else involved that really lit him up in the media in Orange County, about conference organization. And this is back before he was saved. So, ah what this is my understanding, OK, what my understanding is this. Mike and Jeannie had, Mike wanted to make right the reputation, his reputation, and he went into this conference planning with that understanding above board, look I want, I want to, he said I want to clear my name. I want to make right with this. I want to have a conference that’s free of any kind of umm BS, free of any controversy. And he enlisted um some people uh to help do that, in fact one of the very names I mentioned that is no longer part of the conference- Nathan Leal- it’s my understanding is that’s how it was.
You know, look help me, let’s do this conference and bring some good people together. Help me clear my name but in so doing, help, let me, um..let’s give the people who are coming this spiritual revival and informational conference. Well, apparently eh eh something went sideways when, when the scheduling, when the formatting of the conference was not to other people’s liking. And that prompted the ah, they ah, this mass emailing of Mike’s past. When that was already decided. When that was already known to individuals- certain individuals, in my understanding, key individuals, said look, I’m doing this, Mike’s saying I’m doing this not just for the event, but also to clear my name. Yet that information, John, was weaponized. That was weaponized against him. Now I’m not apologizing for Mike’s past, but I’ll say this. I asked him directly when I first got that email. I asked him two questions: I said Number One, Is it true because I, you know, I can go and find out myself. And Number Two, do you have oversight? Outside of yourself and Jeannie and such, for to make sure that rooms are paid for and the money-the accounting of all the money. He said yes to both.
And the third question, the last question that I asked him, would you allow the oversight you know to make sure that no one is hurt. And he said sure, so the bottom line is this, after all this crud uh, you, Gregg Jackson, others uh, uh Pastor Lankford, we’re all going to be there, Russ, we’re all going to be a part of this conference as invitees. Umm, we, I mean, boy, what am I going to say, we did not plan it. You and I didn’t plan this, we were invited to this, that’s our level of involvement. But we have to trust the very people who are organizing this. Can we trust them? Absolutely. Are we going to deliver a great product? Absolutely. But what you said too when something is organized that has good in it, it’s always a target to those people who want to tear something down. But see the bottom line here is what I really really, what is distasteful to me is people who insert themselves into a controversy.
And they exacerbate the controversy only for their own gain while look, somebody will say, I am protecting the flock and then they will insert themselves into the controversy only to exacerbate the situation and further..
JBW: A case could be made for me doing that right now, but I’m OK with it because I’m somewhat of a confrontational person. I don’t just let it lie there, because it will get worse if you do usually.
DH: Well you know, we haven’t even addressed this on our program only, because, so you’re getting my first viewpoint from me but here’s the situation. I think uh uh at the end of the day, this conference is going to be good. I really believe for everyone involved it will be beneficial to the people coming. It’s going to be great- great speakers like yourself and Gregg Jackson and L.A Marzulli, Russ Dizdar’s going to be there. So many great people. It’s going to be beneficial. Yeah there are going to be people tearing this down and, and before hand and after, you know, and during or up to the event itself. So you have to look at it from a couple of different directions, but the bottom line with me is, folks, what you think you know about any controversy, trust me, you don’t know it all. There’s a huge back story and people are trying to use you and game you and it’s it’s all at the end of the day It’ll all come out, but ah you know. So I, it’s going to be a great event. I’m looking forward to meeting you. I’m looking forward to meeting with Russ and meeting Greg Jackson and everyone on that list, so it’s going to be a fun time. And it’s an informational time. I’m really looking forward to it. I hope that answers your question. But I don’t know if I’ve been all your question. I don’t know if I’ve been all over the place but, or if I caused more..
JBW: No, no you didn’t. It’s like I ah you know it’s a sad thing about facing your giants. I don’t want anybody walking in to anything, I don’t want to walk into anything, I want to walk into stuff with my eyes open and knowing what I’m walking into and so if there is stuff whirling around, I either want to validate it or quash it. One of the two.
JBW: But I mean there, there’s stuff that’s been levied against Brother Mike because the latest thing I’ve seen is 2010. Course now that’s six years ago. So like you say anything can be weaponized, I mean ah oh well he didn’t pay a parking ticket or whatever you know. I think we know how media in general can blow things up. It makes you wonder sometimes what would be the media’s interest including NPR in trying to put Mike on the spot. You have to wonder what’s the motivation behind that.
DH: Oh, yeah. And, and you know, look I think that anyone , anyone of reasonable sensibilities would look at something like this and say well, gee whiz, what’s going on, with you know, the ah, conference organizers of the conference had some pretty bad conferences and allegations levied against them. What’s the deal? Well, how are you going to change that perception if you are not going to someone who you trust and say, look I want to change this. This is a hatchet job, I want to change this. Let’s do a Christ conference. Let’s have everything above board and let’s really put together a great conference and then only to have that information, that confidence breached, by someone you trust? Come on man! Weaponized against you? You know so many __(?) yeah there are, and I’ve told privately Steve Quayle I’ve interviewed people, I’ve interviewed inmates in Attica and Rikers for my job and let me tell you something ah from what I’ve seen from some people, I’d much rather at least going into Attica and Rikers, I know what I’m dealing with.
DH: OK, ah some of the people who proclaim to be forgiving Christians who have their ah email and some of the emails I’ve gotten are the most vile, vicious emails I’ve ever seen but having said that at least I knew what I was going into but but the problem with people is that they look at, take someone’s word for it. The internet is the Wild West. Take your.. Here’s what I’m writing, well check it out. Yeah, if that one slice of information and this goes for anything whether it’s Oregon or the conference or it doesn’t matter, they take a slice of information and they build their own perception from that and in the investigative world that that I’m involved in, that’s called really kind of a paralysis of analysis. You look at just one little slice of something and you make decisions based on their perceptions, you have based on that. Man that gets you every time; so widen your perspective, take a few steps back, think about rationally, about it, and then go forward. So..
JBW: You know, and this is the whole reason, the whole reason and nothing but the reason OK, yeah that’s what it is ah and a nice lady named Vicky sent an email…( they discuss the email which encourages them, and they veer off on a positive note of community, and we are all a family)
Here are my comments on just a few of the Talking Points of this rather obscure discussion of the problems surrounding the Hear The Watchmen, March conference in Dallas.
- How many names does Brother Mike have, exactly? Hagmann says one, but Wells says more than one. They do not mention that the name of the organizer of this conference is Mike Kerr, who on his Facebook page and elsewhere referred to himself as Mike Whitestone. Apparently he has been known to use the Moore name of his wife, Jeannie Moore. The Facebook name Mike Whitestone later added a reference to the name Mike Kerr, after this question of his legal identity was questioned.
- Nathan Leal was cross with Ted Broer. I had listened to the audio explaining why Leal had resigned from the conference, and I do not find the word cross (as meaning angry) to be descriptive of the concerns which Leal reluctantly identified in great detail, regarding the co-mingling of New Age ideas with a Christian gospel.
- The conference is a spiritual revival. Given the warnings in the Bible regarding the merchandising of the Holy Spirit’s work and the Name of God, I am doubtful that any revival at this meeting will be anything other than the works of the flesh. However, I surely hope that their prayers asking for repentance will indeed be answered. There was a great display of emotionally tinged speech which came forth from the conference speakers during the Sheila Zilinksy, Weekend Vigilante Round Table program of February 4, 2016. John the Baptist said in Luke 3:8a, Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance …
- Mike has a credibility problem with regard to his past which should be overlooked. Hagmann says that the source of Mike’s problems with the Orange County publications (which wrote scathing reports on Mike Kerr’s handling of large scale events to benefit Veterans), arose because of retribution from ex-spouses and others. However, these reports quoted others who had worked with Kerr, who found that he did not display integrity. As usual, the excuse is that this was “before he was saved”, overlooking the fact that many pagans do not display a lack of integrity in those same situations. Whenever anyone has shown a lack of integrity in the managing of events involving money, it is better that they find a new line of work, whether they be saved or not. This continual excusing of crooked individuals, whether it be Mike Kerr or a religious charlatan such as Jim Bakker, always seems to bring a reproach against the name of Christ. Hagmann says he asked the conference organizers if they had “oversight”? Mike Kerr said yes, but there is no name mentioned of the person/s who have this responsibility. The idea that Mike could clear his past reputation by holding an expensive Christian conference is nonsense. If such a motive did in fact exist, it would have been publicized in the very beginning. This cover story would seem to have been concocted for this Caravan To Midnight show. Let me remind the reader, that there is great profit to be made in large scale conferences, even though it was publicized as being a non-profit event. Most of these so called non-profit events include large salaries for the conference organizers. Had this event gone as planned with 1,000 persons attending, paying $100-105 per ticket, the revenues for a three day period would be about $100,000-105,000. Subtract the expenses involved in renting a hotel conference room, speaker’s fees and expenses, and miscellaneous costs, the remainder goes into the pocket of the organizer. Recall that a separate Go-Fund-me account for $100,000 had been set up to accept donations to bring vets to the conference. Since there was adverse publicity, it appears that most tickets have probably been discounted by $50 as shown on the Toffee website, and also John B. Wells show. If this is the case, then revenues would have dropped to $50,000 if all 1,000 tickets were sold. Mike threatened Nathan Leal with a lawsuit for lost revenues, and it appears that Hagmann and Dave Hodges also threatened Leal with fair use of their radio show audios.
- The facts concerning Mike Kerr were weaponized by those whose motives were their own personal gain and their love of exacerbating controversy. Such people are not excused by saying they are protecting the flock. While the truth about Mike Kerr’s character had been covered up by himself and others, when the facts came out for the potential conference attendees to consider, Hagmann says that wrong motives caused this information to be weaponized. In reading the articles which brought forth this information, it would appear that the writer was distressed over having to be placed in such an awkward position. Many of the comments on websites and forums reveal that the writers were also disturbed by this information, but were also ready to overlook this matter if true repentance were displayed. I am not aware of a time in which Hagmann has ever revealed “the vile and vicious contents of the emails” he purportedly received. Given that his own character has been in question for so long, as to the integrity of the information which he reports, I cannot trust his word on this matter. He still says in this audio, “Trust me”, but fails to consider the number of false government and financial insiders which he has deceived his listeners with over the last few years. How charitable is it to rail against persons who are professing Christians, and declare that you would rather interview the inmates at Attica and Rikers, who are probably in prison for heinous crimes?