Dave Daubenmire and Doug Hagmann: Defending Holier-Than-Thou Liars For Christ against Those Who Tell It Like It Is

Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 2 Corinthians 4:1-2

The day this “Paying Taxes Is Sin” former high school coach got himself a Non Profit Ministry.

On July 15, 2002, Dave (Coach) Daubenmire registered his Ohio non-profit corporation, Pass The Salt Ministries, Inc., as a church.  Organized for the purpose of furthering  the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the Articles of Incorporation allow Pass The Salt Ministries to conduct worship services, prepare and ordain ministers, conduct missionary work in all places and to establish local churches. In 2015, reported income was $158,070, with assets totaling $57,976.

Dave Daubenmire has publicly stated that it is a sin for Christians to pay taxes to the government, and apparently he avoids doing so through his non-profit corporation.  This position is explained in this screenshot of an article published by Right Wing Watch.

So are Christians expected to follow in the footsteps of Dave Daubenmire and get their own tax exempt church ministry?  What about the God ordained aspects of government that are presently being administered properly? Who does Daubenmire think is responsible for funding those  benefits? Somehow, Pass The Salt Ministries, Inc. fails to explain, in commonsense terms, the implications of all those questions which it raises continually in the public sphere, as we shall discover in today’s post.

The Coach Who Never Lost a Game

This Non-Payer of Taxes, “Coach” Dave Daubenmire,  is recognized for his videos where he sports a baseball cap and T-shirt style uniform in front of a photo backdrop of an empty sports coliseum.  He views  ordinary and political life in America as a game which must be won. And if he should lose, he declares a Win, anyway.

Making a mockery of Jesus and the cross as a buffoon. He ignores the fact that his non profit org. is supposed to function as a church which gives glory to Jesus Christ as The Son of God and the Lord and Savior of the world.

An example of this form of walking in craftiness was displayed on December 14, 2017,in an article Coach Dave wrote for News With Views, asking Is It Ever OK For A Christian to Lie? The core issue at hand concerned the various allegations which had been made against Judge Roy Moore, who was seeking the office of United States Senator for Alabama.  Those allegations, involving inappropriate behavior many years ago towards teenage girls, caused many voters to withdraw their support.

Daubenmire, in this December 14th article, said he personally believed Judge Roy Moore,  that the charges against him were bogus. However, we are going to take a look at what happened two days prior, when the words of Daubenmire could have been easily taken to mean that he was convinced that the accusations against Moore were true.

In this December 14th back peddling article, Daubenmire  wrote, “Whether we realize it or not, Christian values WON in Alabama on Tuesday.  The vote was not a rejection of values but an upholding of them. However, the Christian community was divided about whether or not Judge Moore was worthy of their vote.  Cast aside the arguments about his guilt or innocence…his right to the presumption of innocence…the political tactics involved in the accusations, Christian values carried the day.  Those who voted for Judge Moore did it to advance the Kingdom.  Christians who didn’t vote for him believed they were advancing the Kingdom by demanding honesty.”

The problem with Dave Daubenmire and also with Doug Hagmann who promotes the “Coach” and defends him against his critics, is that both men have a record of protecting liars, whether it be Kent Hovind, the tax fraud with his false credentialed PHD, or V-the Guerrilla Economist‘s fraudulent securities and banking credentials.

Kyle Mantyla of Right Wing Watch Was Accused by Hagmann of Stalking Dave Daubenmire, when all Mantyla had done was exercise his Freedom of the  Press journalistic rights.

You might not agree with the philosophy of Right Wing Watch;  however, if their journalism is  accurate, give credit where credit is due. Christians need to be making more of a public stand against those who are merchandising the name of Christ.

So what event, or should we say, WHO was the primary cause which prompted the public waffling by Dave Daubenmire? There are several possibilities, but there seems to be one critic of both Daubenmire and Hagmann that has gained a special place in their world.

In this Hagmann Report of October 16, 2017 on Forgotten Hurricanes, at the 2.30 mark, Doug Hagmann remarks, ” ..what really gets me is you’ve got this, this organization known as  Right-wing Watch and I, that’s the last time I’m gonna say that name of that, of that despicable website and, and some snowflake by the name of Kyle. Let me ask you, Kyle who apparently you, you believe or who you, I don’t know,  is stalking Coach Dave Daubenmire, in my view, anyway.  What in the hell Kyle have you done to help other people?  My bet is zero.  What, have you been on the ground in Texas?  Have you been on the ground in Puerto Rico?  And here you sit behind some, some website and do nothing but be critical of guys like Dave Daubenmire.  And, and that Coach, I gotta tell you, that pisses me off to no end.”

On December 12, 2017, two months after that particular Doug Hagmann rant, Coach Dave TV published a one hour video broadcast called A Man After God’s Own Heart, Judge Moore.  Dave Daubenmire’s opinions prompted  Right Wing Watch’s Kyle Mantyla to issue a short article with the headline,  Dave Daubenmire:  Roy Moore Should Lie About Misconduct Allegations ‘If It Advances The Kingdom of God“.

Kyle Mantyla began by saying,  “On his ‘Pass The Salt Live’ webcast this morning, Religious Right activist Dave Daubenmire said that Roy Moore has no obligation to tell the truth regarding multiple allegations that he pursued sexual relationships with teenage girls when he was in his 30’s and that, in fact, it is better for him to lie about it if doing so will help to advance the kingdom of God. Daubenmire, who has been an ardent Moore supporter for years and even interviewed Moore on his program back in 2013, likened Moore’s efforts to become a U. S.  senator from Alabama to using misdirection in a football game, employing subterfuge during a military battle or hiding Jews from the Nazis, saying that deception and dishonesty in such endeavors is acceptable because doing so furthers a greater good”.

Dave Daubenmire: “In fact it’s best to lie, if it advances the Kingdom of God. Oh there I said it, there I said it!”

The Right Wing Watch article links to the full  Daubenmire broadcast, and also features a 1.20 minute excerpt from this same show, from which author Kyle Mantyla quotes a a shortened version.  I have transcribed the entire excerpt below, as it illustrates more completely the core attitude of Daubenmire.

Dave Daubenmire:  “…I heard somebody say the other day… this, this is Judge Roy Moore Day, I’m kind of heading that way, OK.  I get, I want to scream on Facebook, I just screamed on Facebook, I want to scream more on Facebook when I hear people say, ‘Well, Judge Moore is not worthy of the office, if he’s lying about what he did’.  I want to grab him and I want to slap him upside the stinking head.  Because Judge Moore is trying to infiltrate an ungodly system and Judge Moore, the stakes in this uh campaign are so great for the cause of Christ, and Judge Moore is being lambasted by the holier-than-thou Christians who think it says we can never lie.  And that is not what that says!  In fact, it’s best to lie if it advances the kingdom of God.  Oh, there I said it, there I said it.”

Much of the full broadcast features an unpolished “discussion” of scriptures such as Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor, and claims that the man after God’s own heart, King David, was a liar, etc. As Dave Daubenmire had restated in his December 14th article, he focuses on his assertion that “The Ten Commandments never mention the act of lying..” and then he offers the strange view, “It is my belief that ALL of the Commandments are in place as a means of protection of the innocent…Is it ever wrong to tell a falsehood in order to PROTECT an innocent person?”

Somehow, I had thought that Dave Daubenmire was promoting lying on the part of Judge Moore to cover his past sins, so he could “infiltrate an ungodly system” for the cause of Christ.  But now,  the ground of Daubenmire’s argument has shifted where Judge Moore is innocent of the allegations made against him, and it was Coach Dave’s intention that Moore’s supporters were the ones being encouraged to “tell a falsehood”. The source of all this confusion is rooted in Daubenmire’s inability to study the Scriptures in any depth, where he can compare “spiritual with spiritual”, for the purposes of teaching, preaching or exhortation.

The Bible says the Christian is to bear witness to the truth

Jesus Christ said to Pilate in John 18:37, “…to this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth.  Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”  Do you not hear his voice, Mr. Daubenmire?  In contrast, Jesus Christ said in John 8:44 regarding the devil, that he “abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.  When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:  for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

When the Devil tempted Jesus in Luke 4:5-8, “taking him up into a high mountain” to show him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time, he stated, “If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.”  But Jesus Christ who came into this world to bear witness to the truth, reproved the offer of Satan and  quoted the scriptures declaring, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Doug Hagmann comes to the rescue of Dave (Coach) Daubenmire from holier-than-thou Christians 

Afraid to name Jacquelyn Weaver, author of the Tracking the Leopard Meroz blog, Doug Hagmann credits  me  with having wonder woman powers of transcription. So why does he think I  knit sweaters down here in the Deep South,  in Mississippi?  Maybe because he is buried under 5 feet of snow and unable to shovel out of his basement prison.

That evening on the December 12, 2017 Hagmann Report, entitled, Thank You For Your Service, Dave Daubenmire was invited to explain his morning broadcast, and the response made by Right Wing Watch’s Kyle Mantyla.

Just prior to Daubenmire being brought on the show as a guest, Doug and Joe Hagmann surprisingly included in their introduction, oblique remarks about the author of this blog, Tracking the Leopard Meroz.  In my transcription of these remarks, I link to the articles which I had written in times past which correspond to Doug Hagmann’s complaint.

Doug Hagmann:  (17.21) …look, we need, we need to clean out the rot, the infestation in, inside the beltway and we’re not gonna do it by playing by their rules.

Joe Hagmann:  No, no…we’re not, which brings us to our segment two guest, Coach Dave Daubenmire.

Doug Hagmann: Yes.

Joe Hagmann:…who made some waves today and I’m not gonna get into it now, we’re gonna, we’re gonna save it for the next 15 minutes when he comes on, but he was quoted by, called out by,  Right Wing Watch.

Doug Hagmann:  Kyle…I hate Kyle.

Joe Hagmann: And we’re going to get into why that is…

Doug Hagmann:  How ya doing?

Joe Hagmann: And they’re trying to, it’s like a “AHH, see?  We got Coach, you see what he said, we got him, he’s a bad, this isn’t Christian like!”

Doug Hagmann:  Yeah, and I guarantee you people who are so Christian, I guarantee you some little old lady who’s knitting a sweater in Mississippi, and typing everything that we say ( see Haranguing It All Out To Dry, March 7, 2016 by Jacquelyn Weaver) is gonna be saying, “he’s a bad Christian, the same is the same person, the same people who say you know, Center for Medical Progress, they were really, they were unchristian like for infiltrating Planned Parenthood and exposing the infanticide.  That’s not very Christian like to lie, to lie to, under pretext. ( referring to the April 10, 2016 article by Jacquelyn Weaver, The Professional Liar as Hero) well let him explain that, but you know something though see that’s why, that’s why, when I was in court one day I tossed the TV toward a Judge because he said, pretext in, in the legal sense, you can go in and under a pretext undercover, undercover operations require you know, legally you got to kind of change your identity, you got to go in as someone else, otherwise, what do you do, go and say, Hi, I’m Doug Hagmann, I’m an investigator, I’m here to investigate? NO!  NO!  NO! anyway…(19.07)

Joe Hagmann: (34.07)..we have with us Coach Dave Daubenmire, Pass The Salt Ministries, and he has created a small firestorm on the internet on places like Right Wing Watch and Democratic Underground.

Doug Hagmann:  Kyle’s upset with Dave Daubenmire.

Joe Hagmann:  Please bring the Coach on and have him talk about what it is that he said today that has so many people upset on the left side of the aisle.  Coach, it’s great to have you back on the show.

Dave Daubenmire:  Joe, Doug!  Thanks.  You know, they say if you pick a rock and you throw a rock into a bunch of pigs, the one that squeals is the one you hit, so anytime those other guys are a little bit upset at me, I, I think it’s a pretty good situation to be in.

Doug Hagmann:  I like that analogy.

DD: You know, well if the truth isn’t introduced..

DH:  Yes, it is…

DD:  I’m not, I’m not trying to make them friends, with them, Doug, you know I, I, you know for people to take stuff out of context-you guys get a lot of that stuff as well.  Those who aren’t watching my show every day and don’t understand what, what came before just this morning’s program are not, not going to understand what it is that we’re talking about.

But the whole lot, the whole premise that we were making was, was this whole debate about what’s going on with Judge Roy Moore and the fact that, that we are being forced, Doug, Joe, to live by, to play by two sets of, different sets of rules; in other words, we have the set of rules for the Christians and then we have a set of rules for everybody else.  And it’s in an ungodly, see the political process, government used to be righteous.

Government’s no longer righteous and those of us who studied this at all as I have, now know that Saul Alinsky and his Rules for Radicals, one of the number one rules, I think it was number four, I don’t have it right in front of me right now, was to make the opponent live up to his own set of values.  And Alinsky said that’s impossible to do, you can never, none of us Doug can ever live up to all of the Christian values that are put out before and so what I’m trying to have, what I was alluding to today in this whole Judge Roy Moore, see this Doug, this thing’s so deep, let me try to unpack it a little bit if I can.

DH:  Sure.

DD:  First of all, Doug, I got, I got as much grief from Christians as I have them from the left.

DH:  Hey, welcome to the club and it’s a big club.

DD:  As if we live in a perfect world, brother, we do not live in a perfect world and like it or not, we are constantly faced with what I call situational ethics, now right is always right and wrong is always wrong, and faith teaches us that we are to do right, but there are some things I think that we need to discuss, we need to think about especially as it applies to the whole Judge Roy Moore thing.  I hear from Christians who said, “well, I can’t vote for him because ah, he, he has not come clean.  Judge Moore hasn’t come clean.”

Well, I try to take them back to the Bible,  which by the way, if the Bible were the basis, we wouldn’t be in the mess, this mess that we’re in right now.  The Bible requires that if you have aught against your brother, in other words, if Judge Moore did something to somebody , they have an obligation to go one-on-one first of all, and get it cards on the table.  If that doesn’t work for you, take another brother with you and if that doesn’t go work, then you then you announce it to the whole church, announce it to everybody.  In other words, you as we,  as we all know,  you are innocent until proven guilty.

Well, Judge Moore has been faced with something that was clearly, from a Biblical standpoint now, I’m always talking from a Biblical standpoint, these accusations that have come 40 years after the supposed event took place; it’s clearly beyond what is a Biblical response forty years later.  It’s an accusation Judge Roy Moore has no obligation, in my opinion, to have to answer to the public in a public venue something that happened forty years ago…” (38.11)

The interview of Dave Daubenmire continues, but I have stopped the transcription for the sake of discussing the main points presented in the above dialogue. The reader is welcome to review the entire broadcasts linked to in this post, in order to get the complete context of these videos.

Tracking The Leopard Meroz commentary on the above dialogue

Judge Roy Moore allegations which concerned acts which took place many years ago.  When those allegations came out just prior to election day, I ignored them because of the possibility it was a set-up–after all the statute of limitations had expired on the so-called acts which I had heard about.  But it was the responsibility of Alabama voters to decide whether or not these accusations, true or false, affected their decision to elect Moore as their Senator. 

Daubenmire tries to apply to this situation,  the  Matthew 18 method of dealing with personal sins against another church member. But were those young girls members of Roy Moore’s church? If so, given their ages, they would need to have had an adult represent them so as to protect them from the abuse of power and authority of an older man who was a District Attorney at the time.  The stories which came out about these types of incidents sound as if they were taking place at a mall, and high school games, and most likely did not involve Christian girls attending his church. Flip Benham’s defense of Moore, in which he asserted that when Moore had gotten out of the military, eligible women had already married, and therefore he had to seek out pure young girls, seems far fetched in light of the secular locations he was noted for attending.

Daubenmire’s assertion that because America is not ruled by the Bible, this nation is in a mess.

Again, Daubenmire appears to be ignorant of the Bible, and the history of Israel as a theocracy in the Old Testament. Israel had the Scriptures, and a God ordained form of government, yet the sins and unbelief of the individual citizens caused repeated judgments from the LORD, after repeated pleas for repentance from his prophets. Much of American law is Biblically based, and what we call case-law has been developed from the Scriptural model of using actual historical cases to exemplify a legal principle. While many of these laws and government institutions in America have been built on just principles, there has never been a point in our history where it can be said, Government is righteous.  Daubenmire uses the excuse that our government is now wicked to justify his refusal to pay taxes. Much of American government at various levels still functions as it should, and the credit for that belongs to the individuals who are employed in government jobs, attempting to do their jobs properly.

Are the reports from Kyle Mantyla of Right Wing Watch on Dave Daubenmire fair and accurate?

I have read a few articles in this respect, and overall, I found that Mantyla writes in a very precise style.  He has a good ability to summarize a main point and support it with facts and quotes.

The main problem with Dave Daubenmire is that his style of speaking is sloppy and he enjoys making statements which attract attention, but are not edifying to his listeners.  He is a poor expositor of the Bible, and he has no one to blame but himself,  if he cannot be understood. There is no reason why the context of his arguments should be outside of each individual video which he produces, for he is not giving a series of in-depth Biblical studies, where precept is built upon precept.

Journalists are not stalking others, if they continue to report on an ongoing topic of interest obtained from open sourced material.

Daubenmire brings up Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals as if this seventies book carries any real weight in present day leftist politics.

I read this book when I attended the University of Washington, during those long ago times when student demonstrations were taking place in the late sixties and early seventies in Seattle. It affected very few, and was not a mainstream book. So what if rule four, as Daubenmire says, advises that a radical leftist force his adversaries to live up to their own values?  Who cares?  When it comes to Christians, there should be a sincere concern for trying to live up to the high expectations of the Bible. If an adversary comprehends that the Christian is privileged to have wisdom and insight into the higher principles of life, is that not a good thing? Why do we find that the Christian Alternative Media ministries are always lowering the bar, and encouraging Christians to live as liars and law breakers in this world?

 

 

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Robert Baty, Retired IRS Appeals Officer and Christian Seeks to Break The Code of Silence Protecting Kent Hovind’s False Legal Narratives

The Code of Silence of  Hear No Evil, See No Evil, and Speak No Evil. Feigning Ignorance,    Kent Hovind and his supporters  just can’t seem to figure out why the laws of this nation apply to them.

In discussing today’s subject, the first thing that I need to explain are those three primates to the left, representing The Code of Silence employed by liars to protect their sacred falsehoods from the light of truth.   Also called the sin of willful ignorance, a Biblical illustration found in Mark 11:27-33 gets to the heart of this Oath.  This oath has not evolved much from its creation, for these verses relate that the chief priests, scribes and the elders challenged Jesus by asking, “By what authority doest thou these things?  And who gave thee this authority to do these things?”

In reply, Jesus said, “I will ask of you one question, and answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I do these things. The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?  Answer me.”  So these men reasoned among themselves, and understood that either answer would place them in a position that they did not want to be in. Therefore they answered, “We cannot tell.” Perhaps they foresaw the day when Robert Baty would challenge a debate with the most effective apologist for Biblical creation in the world, Kent Hovind.

This we cannot tell answer is what is referred to as willful ignorance, and it has dire consequences in the soul of the person who engages in it. Heart motives are revealed in how we answer a question, and like the chief priests, elders and scribes,  Kent Hovind and his supporters refuse to fully explain their position, which fits neither the facts or the law.  The we cannot tell oath which undergirds The Code of Silence is the primary means of justification utilized by agnostics.  Christians are to give an answer for the who, what, why, when, where and how of what they believe, and this answer should be spoken in clearly understood words.  Agnostics, the “not knowers“,  walk in deep darkness because at the heart of the matter is that they refuse to acknowledge real authority, as they consider real facts and evidence as some form of evil.

The feigned ignorance of Kent Hovind and his supporters is inexcusable because the foundation of his legal woes has been plainly laid out in court documents and commentaries over the years.   While Christians are not to obey evil dictates, it should never be overlooked that the authority of government is God ordained, and therefore to be shown proper respect.

A Christian response to Kent Hovind

Let me give a couple of examples to bring these assertions to life. The first regards a Christian who sincerely considered the evidence of the Kent Hovind trial, and the implications of it.  On January 21, 2007 rbell,  a forum member of baptistboard.com quoted Kent Hovind’s plea for leniency to the court just prior to his sentencing, saying, “If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach”.

Rbell commented that he found Kent Hovind’s words disturbing…”let other folks–my supporters–pay my taxes“, and so he lays down 12 reasons why Hovind is a liar and disobedient to the Scriptures, as shown in this screenshot.

Honor Among the Tax Sophists:  Rick Wiles and Kent Hovind bond together as two sides of the same counterfeit coin 

My second example concerns the feigned ignorance shown eight years later on July 28, 2015, when Rick Wiles of TruNews said in a video interview of Kent Hovind, “Most of the Trunews audience knows the name Dr. Kent Hovind.  He’s the most famous and respected advocate of creation science in our nation.  He’s the founder of the Creation Science Evangelist Ministry at the Dinosaur Adventure Land in Florida.  He traveled extensively for many years throughout the USA conducting creation science seminars and along the way he simply irritated too many people who despise God in the Bible and the corrupt regime that controls the federal government went after him in 2006.  The IRS obtained federal convictions of him and Mrs. Hovind on three bogus charges, including structuring, meaning he withdrew cash from the bank in small increments which added up to ten thousand dollars. Did you know they can put you away for doing that?  Well they did with Dr. Hovind and his wife. They also convicted him of tax evasion because his ministry’s associates were classified as ministers of the gospel, not employees who had payroll taxes withheld.  You know the Soviet union silenced dissidents by committing them to mental institutions…”. (14.38-15.46).

Despite volumes of evidence which refute what Rick Wiles has stated above, he chooses to bear false witness against the IRS and the court system, stating that Kent Hovind’s tax problems arose because of his accusers’ hatred of the God of the Bible. When it comes to Kent Hovind and to Rick Wiles, they both adhere to the Code of Silence as they refuse to truthfully discuss each other’s tax propensities.

So what would be Rick Wiles’ motive in covering over the tax fraud of Kent Hovind?  Well, one of Kent Hovind’s arguments was that the United States of America has no jurisdiction over him, and he based his reasoning on the arguments put forth by someone associated with the Sovereign Citizen Movement.   Interestingly, this movement promotes a tax avoidance scheme that for years Rick Wiles has used involving the structuring of his ministry as a Corporation Sole

I have written a couple of articles on Rick Wiles and his Office of Bishop of the Church of Trunews, and his Successor, a Corporation Sole,  as well as his Office of the Senior Pastor and President of the Flowing Streams Church, and his Successors, a Corporation Sole.  In 2016, a reader who I will not identify, who is personally acquainted with Rick Wiles, wrote “He calls himself a Bishop, but ordained/consecrated by whom?  Flowing Streams Church has never conducted weekly services.  Lately, his sidekick calls him Pastor Rick, but senior pastor of what?  The Montana address they used on Last Chance Gulch is the Iron Face Hotel, and it is a hotel room.  They rent efficiencies by the month.”

Unless Rick Wiles has recently altered the legal structuring of his ministry, the last I heard was that this self proclaimed Senior Pastor of the Flowing Streams Church, which has no services and no members, had received in 2015 donations totaling $5 million.  All of this fake church set-up is contrary to tax law, so is it any wonder that Rick Wiles covers over the criminal convictions of  Kent Hovind?

Pay No Attention to that tax fraud behind the curtain,  the Radical Righteous Remnant of the Hagmann & Hagmann family Is Told to Walk on Water

Another example of The Monkey Code of Silence is found in this TheNewsUnit post with an audio clip from the Hagmann & Hagmann radio show of April 17, 2015. Note that last sentence, The result is a very profitable and lucrative ministry. And whoever put that sideways smiley face next to V-The Guerrilla Economist’s name had better go into hiding after that last article I did exposing that fraud V.

During this 2.40 minute audio clip from the Hagmann & Hagmann Report (50.45-52.49 mark) of April 17, 2015, we hear Gregg Jackson surmising, “…what if, Joe and Doug, if we look at the Kent Hovind situation, a guy who’s rotting in prison right now being persecuted unfairly, unjustly, essentially and we all know it’s not for tax evasion or any of those things.  It’s because they want to shut up the most effective apologist for biblical creation in the world.  That’s the real reason that they don’t want Kent Hovind out there, I believe.”

“So what if, I’m just using this as an example, what if the whole Hagmann and Hagmann family, not just those on Hagmann Connect, but what about if all of your listeners, and I know that your audience dwarfs MSNBC all combined that it’s bigger than most talk radio shows out there on most of the major networks, what if we came together as the Radical Righteous Remnant of the body of believers of the Hagmann & Hagmann family, what if you had, as Coach Dave was saying, even a small percentage of the Hagmann and Hagmann listeners calling in on behalf of Kent Hovind to the Judge or to whoever is hearing his case or to the local news media as those living locally in the area to go down to the courthouse where if I understand it correctly from Coach it was only about a handful of churches that came, our members of churches, but what if we and my point in this, we can have that type of impact but it’s up to us ultimately.”

“This is why what Coach Dave was saying is so important.  It’s time to get in the game, which means we need to be uncomfortable and what do I mean by that that I mean we need to do the types of things that are uncomfortable for us.  Do you think it was uncomfortable for Peter to take a step out of that boat when Jesus was, was walking on water?  Peter got out of the boat, was walking, do you think that was uncomfortable?  I mean it defies credulity, it defies the small human pea brains that we have that apart from faith and  being obedient, it means walking on water, who can walk on water, I mean obviously it defies nature.  I’m not going to be able to do that and yet Peter was able to do that and why was he able to do that because it was focused on the Lord Jesus Christ.”

OK, here we have Gregg Jackson calling on the millions of Hagmann listeners to take action, and he does not provide any details.  Apparently he does not know the Judge’s name, or even who is presiding over the Kent Hovind case, or exactly what city it is in, or what the case is even about.  But he wants everyone to phone this unnamed Judge and unnamed local newspaper, about what? “Hello Judge or What-ever-you-are, I’m in the game now, and we all know that your ruling has nothing to do with taxes, and millions of us have commandeered an armada of fishing boats just like at Dunkirk, and we are all going to walk across the Gulf of Mexico just like Peter did, by faith….(click)”.

Why Robert Baty IS Kent Hovind’s Worst Nightmare

When I first considered Kent Hovind in 2015, my primary sources of information were Peter J. Reilly who is a contributor on tax issues on forbes.com, and Dee Holmes who has a blog at Hovindology.com. I have always considered Kent Hovind’s worst nightmare to be himself and his supporters.  But recently, as I began to consider the philosophy of the Sovereign Citizen Movement and how that tied in with various persons in the Christian Alternative News Media, I ran into the writings and interviews of Robert Baty who calls himself Kent Hovind’s Worst Nightmare.

Baty has a bit of a provocative sense of humor which he uses to  gall the shameless Hovind into a debate with him.  He recently  posted a photo of himself standing in front of the gate of the  Dinosaur Adventure Land property in Alabama. And Baty’s website kehvrlb.com  posts this notice, THE CHALLENGE TO KENT HOVIND.  There are now a total of 66 propositions for consideration..  Come out, Kent Hovind.  Or, send me your Champion. We have things to discuss.. Sincerely, Robert Baty

What Kent Hovind fears the most is that Baty is very well spoken, a good writer displaying both humor and intelligence, who displays sound logic.  Oh yeah, and he is a retired IRS Appeals Officer who is also a Christian, who easily rips the veil off of  Hovind’s false legal narrative.

While Kent Hovind avoids the debate challenge of Robert Baty, those who argue with him soon retreat to the safety of the hen house.

Personally I would like to see Kent Hovind’s Champions  come out one by one to debate Baty, starting with the Master of the Corporation Sole Rick Wiles, and then Get In The Game Dave (Coach) Daubenmire, The Godfather Douglas Hagmann, Goldslinger Steve Quayle, and I Can Walk on Water Gregg Jackson.  Or if they are terrified that one day they might look out the window and see Robert Baty standing on the street outside of their sovereign domain,  perhaps they could arrange to come out as a group representing the Radical Righteous Remnant of the Hagmann Family. 

I know nothing of Robert Baty’s personal life, but I suspect his adversaries know a lot. I did notice that on October 10, 2017, Kent Hovind raised up on his video lead page, the banner  Touch Not Mine Anointed as a warning to someone. Perhaps he has actually read the 66 debate propositions posted on Robert Baty’s website, titled Kent Hovind v. Robert Baty- The Great Debates!  And now Hovind has been rendered speechless.

These 66 propositions are worded in the traditional debate style that requires the two debaters to begin their arguments by affirming or denying the opening statement. If that is too complicated of a process for Hovind,  Baty has other sections on his website which relate to the core issues or persons connected with the Hovinds and their supporters.

One of the most dangerous aspects of Robert Baty, which is probably the number one  reason why Kent Hovind will not debate,  is the fact that Baty had steadfastly followed the details of the Hovind tax trials over the years and noticed things which the casual observer would not.  For example, the August 13, 2013, Peter J. Reilley’s article,  Doctor Dino- Kent Hovind May Lose in Court but will never give up, displays this comment from Robert Baty:I am going to take up the challenge of that last sentence, so the next post will be on, hmmm, there is so much to choose from, how about the tax advice of Glenn Stoll who can get you a longer jail sentence than you thought possible.

Where Have All The Drama Queens Gone? The March Dallas Hear The Watchmen Conference Is A Hard Act to Follow For the Knoxville Event Organizers

Mike Whitestone AKA Mike Kerr's Challenge to stay out of jail

Mike Whitestone AKA Mike Kerr once again tempting Fate

Mike Whitestone AKA Mike Kerr

Mike Whitestone AKA Mike Kerr

It would appear that many are contemplating the upcoming September 30-October 2, 2016  Hear The Watchmen Conference in Knoxville, Tennessee, as I see an upsurge in the readership of this blog’s dozen or so articles on the first conference, which took place in Dallas last March 18-20, 2016.

That first Hear The Watchmen Conference had featured 9 key speakers, Paul McGuire, L. A. Marzulli, Pastor David Lankford, Michael Boldea, Russ Dizdar, Jon Robberson, Gregg Jackson, Coach Dave Daubenmire and Pastor Flip Benham.  In addition, the emcees for the Dallas event were Doug and Joe Hagmann, John B. Wells and Sheila Zilinsky.  The names highlighted in bold print are those who are not on the roster for the Knoxville conference.

As they stood by the sullied reputation of event organizers Mike Kerr AKA Mike Whitestone and his wife Jeannie Moore/Kerr, the missing participants from the Knoxville conference displayed a loyalty unmatched in the Shakespearean-style dramas of the Merchants of Christian Alternative Media.  Also missing from the new roster of speakers is Steve Quayle, who for a short time was shown in the photo lineup of the Knoxville conference.

As befitting the short history of the Hear The Watchmen Conference,  the scripture chosen to highlight the Knoxville event is “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few”.  (Matthew 9:37).  Below is the roster of speakers of the September Hear The Watchmen Conference:

The Laborers in the Knoxville field

The Laborers in the Knoxville field

Last spring the first conference generated much interest due to the controversy which arose when Nathan Leal reproved the New Age heresies of Dr. Ted Broer.   As a result of listening on December 18, 2015, to that particular Hagmann/Broer interview, Nathan Leal made an attempt to deal with the heresy issues with the organizers of the Hear The Watchman Conference, as both men were scheduled to speak on the same platform. When that discussion failed,  Leal issued a letter of resignation from the conference on December 23, 2015, as a matter of conscience.

Subsequently, Dave Hodges on his Commonsense show defended Dr. Ted Broer’s version of events.  In the meantime Donna Leal had mentioned in late December that they had been threatened with a lawsuit regarding “fair use”.  I am guessing this had something to do with the audio created by Nathan Leal explaining precisely why he had disagreed so strongly with Broer’s theology.  Leal had wisely used sound bites from the radio broadcast so that the listener could hear what had been stated. By January 8, 2016, this audio had been removed from Nathan Leal’s website.

John Little of Omega Shock  defended Nathan Leal, and provided key information on the behind the scenes attacks against Leal which had resulted when he publically stated his reasons for separating from the Hear The Watchman Conference. On January 4, 2016 in response to this incident, I posted Kudos to Nathan Leal of the Watchman’s Cry for Standing Up (For a Few Days Anyway) to Dr. Ted Broer, Hagmann and Hagmann and Dave Hodges.  I was quite surprised by the high numbers of readers interested in this particular incident.  And so on January 11, 2016,  I wrote another article involving Steve Quayle and Pastor David Lankford, who were pressured to publically comment on the underlying causes of this controversy.

On January 28, 2016 I posted Cloven Tongues of Strange Fire:  The Continuing Controversy of the Hear The Watchmen Conference, and two days later on January 30th again posted another article called, The Sins of Christian Marketplace Conflicts of Interest:  or when Doug and Joe Hagmann, Did You Intend to  Release The Results of Your Background Investigation of the Founders of the Hear The Watchmen Conference?

Eight more articles ensued discussing  the shady fund-raising history of the fictitious name Mike Whitestone AKA Mike Kerr and his wife Jeannie Moore/Kerr and their GOFUNDME account, as well as Doug Hagmann and John B. Wells’ attempt to defend the duplicity of Mike Whitestone.  Other articles can be found on this blog on the speakers and persons connected with the first conference including Jon Robberson (The Hollywood Insider), Paul McGuire, Flip Benham, Sheila Zilinsky, Pastor David Lankford, Steve Quayle, Dave Hodges, and  Dave Daubenmire, who dresses in a baseball oufit, who I noted was a key defender of tax fraud Dr. Dino.

When the Dallas conference was concluded, a roster of possible participants for the Knoxville conference was shown, including a photo of Steve Quayle. Since he will not be present, I note that one of the speakers added to the current line-up is another drama queen,  Anthony Patch.  On  February 15, 2016, I wrote about his strange antics in a post called The Real Reason The Men in Black Tried to Silence Anthony Patch.

Without Douglas Hagmann, Sheila Zilinsky, and Steve Quayle to bolster the second Hear the Watchmen Conference, it would appear that this upcoming event in Knoxville, Tennessee, will be just one more dreary  conference. Perhaps Russ Dizdar might prove to be interesting, particularly as one attendee in the Spring conference who refused to clap at his speech, was ousted as a possible terrorist suspect.  I may yet examine all of Dizdar’s material in-depth, having only perused through some of his audios.  Of note is that this month someone used my email contact information, without my permission, to subscribe me to Russ Dizdar’s newsletter, notices, book discounts, and upcoming event notices.

A short summary of key events given below will remind my regular readers that the brouhaha associated with the Nathan Leal/Dr. Ted Broer controversy represented a real crisis in the inner circle of Doug Hagmann and Steve Quayle.  Nathan Leal had for some time been a featured repeat guest on the Hagmann show, but his brief stand against the heresy of another Hagmann guest represented a breach of the code of loyalty of the brotherhood of this Alternative Media universe. Into the breach jumped Dave Hodges to defend Broer. And then on January 7, 2016,  Steve Quayle and Pastor David Lankford publically commented on this situation, due to the pressure from their inquiring listener base.

John Little then defends Leal, and brings to light the unsavory actions of the conference organizer Mike Whitestone, who is trying to distance himself from critical newspaper articles written exposing his fundraising tactics under his real name Mike Kerr.  His wife’s toffee business is a sponsor of the Hagmann broadcast.  On February 20, 2016 I wrote an article called The King of Jousters, John B. Wells and his ARK Knight-errant, Sir Douglas Hagmann give a Private Exhibition of Their Prowess.  In this article as well as others, I transcribe the audio of the men defending the shady actions of their friends who partner and promote each other in the Alternative Media. On March 2, 2016 Douglas Hagmann ranted on air against bloggers who transcribe his every word.

knoxsville-hear-the-warchmen-1-2

Note the New Sensitivity to the complaints against the Event Organizers who are known for their gross commercialism of the needs of Veterans and Christians. In addition to promoting this conference, Singing Lessons are encouraged by emcee John B. Wells

Last year I asked Mike Whitestone for an accounting of his GoFundMe account and was ignored. This year he lowered his monetary goal and added that this account was set up for Jean Moore, as I had questioned the legality of using a ficticious name. I had heard that Jean Moore had married Mike Kerr and I do not know if she retained her prior surname. If not, then this is another Red Flag day for the Event Organizers who like to confuse the paper trail which those nosy IRS auditors like to sniff out.

Last year I asked Mike Whitestone for an accounting of his GoFundMe account and was ignored. This year he lowered his monetary goal and added that this account was set up for Jean Moore, as I had questioned the legality of using a ficticious name. I had heard that Jean Moore had married Mike Kerr and I do not know if she retained her prior surname. If not, then this is another Red Flag day for the Event Organizers who like to confuse the paper trail which those nosy IRS auditors like to sniff out.

Publicity of the Leal/Broer/Mike Whitestone/ Dallas Hear the Watchmen conference had gotten so far out of control that a diversion smoke grenade was tossed out on February 25, 2016 by Steve Quayle who had issued a QAlert headlined as Timothy Alberino and His Family Have Come Under A Defined and Very Dangerous Attack Wednesday Night, And, Had Not God Intervened, All Would Have Died.  Again in a post, I transcribed this very strange story, as told by Timothy Alberino and Steve Quayle to Doug Hagmann.

Then during the actual conference in Dallas on March 18-20, 2016, Douglas Hagmann claimed that he had experienced major problems with the TSA at the airport, that terrorist threats had been made against conference participants,  that he was forced to stay in the hotel and advised not to leave, and that the police had erected a 25 foot surveillance tower at the hotel, of which no one had thought to take a photo of.  And then again,  there was that man who was viewed as acting strangely because he did not applaud Russ Dizdar.  That man in the audience was removed from the conference as a possible terrorist.

sheila-zilinsky-march-2016-fb-2

As is usual with Hagmann, no police reports are provided to support his story with facts. However, after the Dallas conference, the drama continued.  I want to thank the alert reader of this blog who sent me a copy of the Vancouver Canada Provincial Adult Court docket.  We must recall that the Event Organizers and attendees claimed that the Dallas conference was anointed by God and a great success.  But within 3 days of the conclusion of this God anointed event,  one of the emcees, referred to by Mike Whitestone as a Warrior Woman for Jesus, ended up on March 23, 2016 with charges being brought against her for assault, uttering threats to cause death or bodily harm, causing disturbance, mischief-obstruction/use/enjoyment of property in Vancouver, Canada.

The British Columbia court system, file number 241656 shows as the cause claimed for these actions to be fear of injury/damage by another person.  Screenshots of this event are shown below, taken from the public records of the Vancouver Provincial Adult Court:

zilinsky-arrest-2-2

zilinsky-arrest-3-2

zilinsky-arrest-2

As the title of this post suggests, indeed the Dallas Hear The Watchmen Conference will be a hard act to follow by those participating in this month’s Knoxville event.

 

 

 

The Creation & Evolution of The Interpreter of the Mysteries

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  Genesis 1:2

What does one put into a petri dish to create a clone of The Interpreter of the Mysteries who has condescended to come down to us in human form?

I can’t recall ever hearing about Kent Hovind before this month.  But when the Hagmann, Quayle, Zilinksy, former Prophecy Club  speakers started fussing over the martyrdom of a man who calls himself Dr. Dino, I decided to take a second look. Yesterday I  listened to Dr. Scott Johnson of Contending for the Truth,  formerly a  Prophecy Club speaker, lament the travesty of injustice done against Kent Hovind.  He describes him as a humble man who has brought many to salvation, who will greatly be rewarded in heaven.  Now Coach Dave Daubenmire has entered the fray, suggesting that Hovind should be tried by a jury of his peers, i.e. Christians who believe in creation, and not evolution.  Well, put me on that jury!  I am a King James Bible Believer and once held membership in an independent fundamentalist Baptist church, etc. etc. etc.

"Coach" Dave Daubenmire, defender of Dr. Dino

“Coach” Dave Daubenmire, defender of Dr. Dino

When I first heard the laments about Hovind’s tax judgments,  I found the claims that he is being persecuted for his creation views to be dubious, and thought that if anyone was persecuting him, there must be a deeper reason.  Well, I listened further to the things said on his behalf, and decided to search the internet for clues to this mysterious martyr of the faith, and found loads of information from friends and foes alike.

In short, Kent Hovind is a tax fraud, pure and simple, and deserving of a prison sentence. However, he seems to regard himself as The Interpreter of the Mysteries, come down in human form, and therefore he is above all those laws imposed on us mere mortals, whether it be tax laws, building permits, or what have you.  Hovind has been praised for taking a vow of poverty, which me thinks that this is a vow which is easy to keep while in prison.   But if you read the Wikipedia article on Kent Hovind note the amount of money he had made in one year on dinosaur/creation merchandise!  The fact that his supporters have misrepresented the facts of his case, causes me to understand the depth of their own depravity a little better.

I am most disappointed that Dr. Scott Johnson has gone down to Pensacola in support of Kent Hovind, as I rather like Johnson as a person.  But this action of his causes me to wonder if he is suffering from strong delusion, and not deserving of his “calling”  as another Watchman on the wall.  When the atheists on the web can quote the correct scriptures as a rebuttal to Kent Hovind’s fraudulent character, then it is time to back up, and have a second look.

I trust no one, especially one who claims to be a Christian, who obtains his degrees from unaccredited colleges. Why this need to be referred to as a Doctor?   What does Dr. Dino think 2 Timothy 2:15 means when it commands, “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.” Does Hovind think that God approves of a lazy evangelist who has to fake his way through his “calling” as a “creation science evangelist”? What scriptures even back up such an approach to evangelism?  Hovind made a great amount of money selling merchandise in connection with his dinosaur business, and apparently never filed a tax return. One critic of Hovind’s Dinosaur exhibit said it was shabby, shabby, shabby.  Could Dr. Dino’s theme park not even get one compliment such as “Shabby Chic“?

I once was a member of an independent fundamentalist church, and attended three others, and I am very familiar with their doctrine.  I grew tired of preachers who refused to preach the whole counsel of God, and so I sought it elsewhere. While some persons who investigated Kent Hovind were unable to get a copy of his doctoral dissertation, I found a copy at www.wistorage.net/file/kent-hovind-dissertation.  It is a peculiar read,  as if he had taken several years of sermon notes scrawled on the back of  church worship guides, and threw them into his thesis.  Now Hovind’s dissertation is a bit odd, as I cannot locate an actual clear thesis statement, one which identifies his “claim” followed by a “because” statement of reason.  Precision seems to a feature of evidence which is lacking in Hovind’s thesis, as well as in his speech and other writings.  We must understand that a thesis is a statement or argument, supported by evidence, which should be convincing to a critical reader.

For some reason Hovind keeps referring to his dissertation as a book, over and over again. Perhaps while he was assembling this document, he was hoping to later sell it in book form in his Dino gift shop someday. Maybe this is his thesis: “In this book I’ll be covering, in a nutshell, the creation/evolution controversy.  I will explain why it is so important, the effects that the theory of evolution has had on our society, the creation alternative, and what we should do about it the problem.”

Why not a thesis statement such as, “The theories of evolution are unsupportable by scientific research, because evolution was in fact created as a justification for worshiping the creature, rather than the Creator”?  But no, to muddy the waters further,  Hovind continues on, “I only ask that you realistically look at the ideas presented and ask yourself the simple question,  ‘Does this key open the lock, does this answer the question?’  If it does–it just might be right.”  It just might be right?  When you introduce the “Uncertainty Principle” into your “thesis”, how can I be convinced by anything you say?  How about clarifying what your dissertation is asserting? How about having a conclusion based on evidence, which the reader can grasp?  Shouldn’t a dissertation contain a few footnotes, and maybe some source quotes from the evolutionists themselves?  Lazy, lazy, lazy.  The closest you will get me to calling you “Doctor”, is the caricature you have given of yourself as Dr. Dino. Or is that Dr. Dunno?

In I Timothy 6, Paul speaks of the importance of servants treating their masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.  This is an important doctrine and I agree with it. However, I did find that fundamentalist Pharisees tend to bludgeon anyone on the head, with this type of scripture,  if anyone should wonder out loud “why the king has no clothes on”.   The verses which follow (I Timothy 6: 3-6) regarding the person who is disrespectful of the proper authority given by God, says, “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness:  from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.”

Kent Hovind and his most famous supporters seem to be all merchandisers, supposing that gain is godliness.  Thus from such clones of the Interpreter of the Mysteries, to whom we are supposed to bow the knee, I withdraw myself.