Twin Horns of a Dilemma: The Love of the Wages of Unrighteousness And Controlling Your Own Devils

And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron.. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.  But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?  And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself. I Kings 22:11a, 23-25

King Ahab at Ramoth-Gilead

King Ahab at Ramoth-Gilead

Recently, I noticed that one of the Hagmann’s websites had been posting Sky Watch TV’s series of Tom Horn articles on Trolls. These series of articles are incorporated under the clever title, For Whom The Baal Trolls. Dr. Thomas R. Horn is a person of note, having pastored a local church, later serving in an administrative capacity for an evangelical association, and in the past few years becoming a book publisher, as well as an author, setting up Sky Watch TV,and selling prepper supplies at his Survivor Mall. Both his writing and his oratorical skills reflect a broad  knowledge of religion, history, and current events.  So with these attributes in mind, I thought I would take a look at what he has written thus far on internet trolls in articles 1-4.

In the first article posted January 21, 2016, Tom Horn used a definition of troll from a Psychology Today article quoting Professor Jennifer Golbeck who wrote “Let’s getting our definitions straight, an internet troll is someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments designed to upset or disrupt the conversation.  Often in fact, it seems like there is no real purpose behind their comments except to upset everyone else involved.  Trolls will lie, exaggerate, and offend to get a response.” I have highlighted this definition in bold letters, as this definition will serve as the plumb line to gauge how Tom Horn subtly expands the deviant behavior of trolls to include persons who write blogs.

At the very start of this first article we see a screen shot of a video of Lori Bakker on her husband’s TV program, The Jim Bakkar Show, with the words “God Hates Discord Among the Brethren”. This leads into a quote from Charisma News on 1/15/2016, wherein Shawn A. Akers referenced this particular show in his article called ‘This is the No. 1 Thing God  Hates’. Tom Horn notes that Lori Bakker quotes from Galatians 5:22-26 which describes the fruit of the Spirit as contrasted against “vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another”.

The article comments, “Not exactly a picture of today’s society, is it? Everywhere you go, especially in the media and on social media, you can find people criticizing each other and tearing each other down without conscience. And that includes Christians toward the world, and with each other. Evangelists Jim and Lori Bakker say, “This has got to stop.” “This is the No. 1 thing God hates,” Jim Bakker said. “God hates sowing discord among the brethren.”

So even before we get to the definition of trolls, Tom Horn has chosen to introduce his first article with God hating discord among the brethren, as opined by that televangelist fraud Jim Bakker, who presumably has repented from his former sexual proclivities and shyster-isms. The first thing to be noticed from these sources  is that they fail to provide the reader with the exact Scriptural verses undergirding the points they are making on discord.

Looking through the Bible, my eyes behold Proverbs 6:16-19, “These six things doth the LORD hate:  yea, seven are an abomination unto him:  A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Just before these verses of seven things which are an abomination to the LORD, my eyes spot verses 12-15, which also pertain to this discussion on discord. “A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.  He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers; frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually:  he soweth discord.  Therefore shall his calamity come suddenly; suddenly shall he be broken without remedy.”

Are you beginning to wonder why these verses surrounding the topic of discord were not quoted as they stand in the Bible? Why pick out one aspect which God hates, and declare that to be the Number One thing.  And why does Tom Horn exalt Jim Bakker’s opinions, who even after he got out of prison, refused to stay out of the “Christian Con Game”?    Perhaps it is because both Tom Horn and Jim Bakker are profiteers of the Prepper movement. And incidentally, both men also promote Jonathan Cahn, who has said that Jim Bakker had mentored him.

Now, anyone who knows me, also knows that I think that a prudent person does wisely plan for his own household, considering that they might have to ride out rough times ahead. My own parents and grandparents rode out the Depression and  World War II by having a home garden, canning and preserving food items, bartering, etc. I am not against Preppers.   I am against the shameless exploitation of the fears of vulnerable persons, who then end up purchasing items which are heavily marked up, often of inferior grade, and shipped at exorbitant costs.

In Tom Horn’s first article he quotes from research done on a concept called the Dark Triad, which is comprised of “Machiavellianism (willingness to employ cunning and duplicity to manipulate and deceive others)”, narcissism and sadism. Apparently these traits are also linked to internet trolls, with sadism being the “strongest characteristic”.  Because of the continuing nuisance of trolls, Tom Horn has an in-house policy which he calls BLOCK, FILTER, DELETE! I have no problem with such a policy when dealing with persons who meet the defined criteria of a Troll. Such persons are, if nothing else, time wasters; genuine and sincere dialogue is not the intent of a troll.

The second article in this Troll series deals with the unseen world of spiritual wickedness, and Tom Horn discusses how such entities might gain legal ground over various types of territories. The final paragraph is key, and states, “These are ancient statutory principles that pertain equally to material and spiritual dynamics.  They imply that wherever activity favorable to malevolent spirits occurs by consent, is tolerated, or action is not taken to force the “squatter’ to cease and desist, footholds and even personal rights can be surrendered to hostile forces over people and locations.  This is similar to the contract some Internet trolls are making with dark forces.”

The third article displays a screenshot at the top which states, ” Troll– internet- In internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the internet starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community.” This article begins by discussing his 1998 book which can be downloaded for free at the Sky Watch Store, called Spiritual Warfare:  The Invisible Invasion.  He rhetorically asks, What does this have to do with Internet trolls?  The answer given deals with territorial demonization, and the difference between those who are deceived by the demonic world versus those who knowingly form alliances.

From here Tom Horn presents in his fourth article the discussion of religious demons entering churches as a spiritual military strategy. And what is his starting point?  It is 2 Chronicles 18:18b-21a which he quotes as, I saw the Lord sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.  And the Lord said, “Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-Gilead?  ”  And one spoke after this manner, and another saying after that manner. Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, “I will entice him.”  And the Lord said unto him, “Wherewith?”  And he said, “I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.”

In this respect, Tom Horn quotes David Wilkerson on the Satanic infiltration of the church -especially charismatic churches- by those posing as super spiritual Christians.  Horn says this includes Internet troll “theology cops”. Tom Horn reproduces some of his own words from his book Blood On The Altar regarding “fake defenders of the faith”. While he does not reference his book in this particular citation, anyone who is familiar with the February 10, 2015 Joint Response of Steve Quayle and Doug Hagmann against “character assassination”, and the January 6, 2016 Hagmann Report radio broadcast where Steve Quayle also quotes from Blood On The Altar, notes the importance which this work is given by the inner circle of the Christian Alternative Media.

Tom Horn, again without identifying the exact Scriptural verses, paraphrases Matthew 18:15-17 which discuss the procedure to follow when dealing with a brother in the church who has trespassed against you, as another Christian. If you gain familiarity with false teachers and false prophets, you will discover that they always throw down the gauntlet of Matthew 18 to reprove those who are obeying the admonitions of the Bible on how to deal with false doctrine and heresies. This is a deliberate misuse of Scripture to shut down the truth, just as the goal of internet trolls is to shut down sincere  Christian dialogue.

Since the topic of these articles are internet trolls, which represent that Dark Triad of Machiavellianism, narcissism, and sadism, cannot we safely say that such persons are not brothers in Christ?  And if such dark personalities profess Christianity, are we to assume that their aggressive militaristic behavior is a matter which falls under the procedures of Matthew 18?  To do so, is to render the genuine Christian powerless.  Let us here observe at this point in the discussion,  that the Christian Alternative Media, under the banner of Watchmen, has waged an unrelenting campaign against a quiet faith in Jesus Christ and against believing and reading the Bible for oneself.  This is accomplished by a steady stream of fear mongering propaganda, false prophets, “Insider” men with hidden identities, the proliferation of badly written books,  overpriced prepper supplies, etc., etc. etc.

Tom Horn, after referencing Matthew 18, speaks words which are similar to his introduction to his Blood On The Altar book, saying, “With that in mind, the next time you are online reading some troll’s diatribe about Carl Gallups, Chuck Missler, Gary Stearman, Steve Quayle, L.A. Marzulli, Cris Putnam, Jonathan Cahn, Josh Peck, Gonz Shimura, Joel Richardson, yours truly, or any of the other current favorite targets, ask yourself if the hatchet people attacking them ever bothered to obey Scripture and go to the person PRIVATELY with their concerns in a loving spirit of restoration (they haven’t), and then “be careful little eyes what you read,” because these scripture-guideline-stomping destructive forces seek to contaminate your mind and spirit (see Proverbs 4:23-27) in order to draw YOU TOO over to the dark side.”

After saying all that, Tom Horn then says, “Be absolutely clear about this, as well:  NOTHING in Scripture allows for setting up websites, blogs, or other mediums to PUBLICALLY and routinely lambast believers with accusations – that is the job of Satan and his followers!  He is the father of lies and the “accuser of our brethren…which accused them before our God day and night” (John 8:44; Revelation 12:10).

Let’s pause here for a moment to summarize the movement of thought throughout these first  four articles on Trolls.  We start with  God hates discord among the brethren, and then move into a definition of an internet troll as someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments which disrupts genuine dialogue.  We then are told that trolls have deep underlying Machiavellian, narcissistic and sadistic tendencies, that they contract with dark territorial forces, and that there are internet trolls professing Christianity which attack true Bible-based websites.  So far so good, if we stick to the internet troll definition as someone who comes into a discussion and posts comments.

Suddenly we find that Tom Horn, who as a matter of policy, blocks, filters and deletes internet trolls, has now subtly redefined the standard definition of the internet troll to include anyone who has a website or blog who criticizes Tom Horn or any of his Christian business partners and book writers.  He calls such persons fake defenders of the faith.

So how about a real life example of a Christian brother who attempted to write Tom Horn with his concerns?  Let us see how Tom Horn dealt with this person.  Dr. Scott Johnson, who is a chiropractor, began several years ago recording audio tapes of his own Bible studies.  He first published these audio recordings, I believe, on the Sermon Audio website, but after he criticized another person on this site, he was told to leave.  So he started posting his audios on his own webpage, Contending for Truth.com.  When I first heard Dr. Johnson on Sermon Audio, he was a bit annoying; but over time, he started improving his delivery, and he has since made numerous Biblically sound warnings against false prophets and heresies.

Dr. Johnson did not come from a Christian background, and therefore like those of us with similar histories, he made every mistake in the book. He was deeply involved in Charismatic churches, and later in the Independent Baptist Fundamental churches.  I have always granted him leeway, despite not being in agreement with him on some issues, because for the most part he tests the spirits, and he loves sound doctrine.  An area which causes me to be a bit cautious is that Dr. Johnson used to be a speaker on the Prophecy Club circuit, plus it appears he relies too heavily on news reports coming from Steve Quayle’s website.  When he defended Dr. Dino, I posted  a  comment critical of Dr. Johnson’s discernment.  There was a point years ago when I dropped off listening to Dr. Johnson because of his lack of discernment of Tom Horn.  Eventually, he decided that he was mistaken and he wrote his concerns to Dr. Tom Horn.

Dr. Johnson sent Tom Horn an email dated August 28, 2010 regarding the promotion of Catholicism through videos and articles. If I remember correctly, Dr. Johnson had said that Tom Horn was acquainted with his name.  However, Tom Horn never replied to this inquiry.  Dr. Johnson is not an internet troll as defined by common consensus, and he tried to communicate privately with Tom Horn with his concerns.  Dr. Johnson went public with his email when his sincere communication was ignored by Tom Horn. If you look at the link above, you will also see that Dr. Johnson had some strong reservations regarding Tom Horn’s friends Gary Stearman and David Flynn.

There is a great deal of hypocrisy in the Christian Alternative Media, as some of these merchandisers routinely block, censor, and attack genuine Christians who question the soundness of their doctrine, yet consider it nothing to lambast such persons on air.  They exhibit a double standard when they block legitimate comments on their own websites, while at the same time they send around some of their own “plants”, lying spirits, to try to entrap the writers of Biblically based “discernment”  blogs whose comment sections are free speech zones. This has happened even here at  the Tracking the Leopard Meroz website.

In my case, each of these lying spirits ended up in the peculiar position of coming under the condemnation of their own words. You see, the word of God is a double edged sword.  Revelation 2:12-17  deals with the church at Pergamos, where Satan’s seat was, and the letter sent to it was from Jesus Christ, “he which hath the sharp sword with two edges”.  This letter reproves those who hold the doctrine of Balaam and also the doctrine of the Nicolaitans.  It is only those who overcome, which he gives the hidden manna and the white stone which has “a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.”

One of the characteristics of  Charismatic Christian groups is that they are so obsessed with the world of demonology and their methodology, that they end up being unable to distinguish between Satanists posing as super-spiritual Christians  and genuine Christians who are obeying Scriptural admonitions.  Thus blinded, they fight against anyone who is against them.  Jesus Christ, as head of the Church and the sound doctrine of the Bible never enter into this battle of theirs at all.

Tom Horn says that someone who criticizes, say, for example, Chuck Missler, is a fake defender of the faith.  Here is an example of a blog called Revelationgate.com which features an article by Gaylene Goodroad called Chuck Missler and Plagiarism: Purloining New Age Ideas. The writer of this article has taken the time to explain her accusation by comparing line by line examples of Chuck Missler’s writings against a book written by Michael Talbot.  Should her thoughtful post be disregarded because she has documented a complaint against one of Tom Horn’s friends? Certainly this was never a matter of applying Matthew 18.  It is a warning however, about the veracity of Chuck Missler.

Tom Horn mentions the name of L. A. Marzulli as being the target of fake defenders of the faith.  He currently is on the speaker roster for the Hear The Watchmen conference scheduled for March 2016 in Dallas.  Perhaps we should pay close attention to how he personally deals with the on-going controversy involving Nathan Leal, Dr. Broer,  and Mike Kerr AKA Mike Whitestone.  After all, if Mr. Marzulli is a genuine defender of the faith, we will want to examine the example he sets in this rather peculiar situation.  With John Little setting the bar of integrity so high, the twin horns of a dilemma become that of the love of the wages of unrighteousness in the heart of all these Christian Alternative Media stars, and the matter of controlling your own devils.  As pointed out in the third article of For Whom the Baal Trolls, Tom Horn says that “having a demon” (echon daimonion) can actually denote a person who possesses the demon, and not the other way around.(his emphasis)

This conference has now been subtitled, The Crusade Begins:  Saddle for Battle and shows the feet of a horse running and kicking up dirt. Are they headed for Ramoth-Gilead, or what?  Have they called on the Knights Templar Crusaders to defend them? Have they forgotten that Daniel 5:27 applies to them?  “TEKEL;  Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.”  Ahab did not believe that and he fell at Ramoth-Gilead.hear the watchemen saddle for battle (2)

I would like to remind the leaders of the Christian Alternative Media that Jesus Christ said in Revelation 2:16, Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.  This he said in regard to those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, and also the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.(my emphasis).  You see, perhaps the Number One thing which God hates are the Nicolaitans and the sorcerers who are like Balaam, which cause so much of the discord in the church.

 

 

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The Sins of Christian Marketplace Conflicts of Interest: Or When, Doug and Joe Hagmann, Did you Intend to Release the Results of Your Background Investigation of the Founders of the Hear-The-Watchmen Conference?

Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.  2Corinthians 4:1-2

The various websites of Douglas J. Hagmann are undergirded by his company,  Hagmann Investgative Services, Inc., where he asks, “Please consider helping us to offset our investigative, research, and broadcasting costs.”  A  DONATE button is how Hagmann accepts credit card payments, and checks are directed to be made out to Hagmann Investigative Services, Inc. Considering themselves to be premier investigators, both Doug and Joe Hagmann have recalled some of their more colorful investigations during their radio broadcasts, and Doug Hagmann has made the claim in an article posted on his site that he had done undercover operative work for the FBI.  A banner of Doug Hagmann’s face with the words Northeast Intelligence Network, Reporting on TRUTH the media won’t, sits above the emboldened words of Ephesians 5:11 “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them”.hagmann intelligence (2)

The context of these words is Ephesians 5:6-13 “Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.  Be not ye therefore partakers with them.  For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.  And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.  For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.  But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light:  for whatsoever doth make manifest is light”.

In the past year or so, the Hagmann’s have promoted what they term the Hagmann Christian Marketplace.  The very first page one encounters for this internet marketplace says boldly, LET YOUR LIGHT SHINE. When you join the H&H Marketplace you are setting your business in that city on a hill…Ye are the light of the world.  A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.  Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.  Matthew 5:14-16″.

Below this is the proclamation, “We Have A Big Family…Come be a part of it.” Here is a screenshot of their promotion of their services.hagmann market place 4 (2)

Next we see a photo of two hands forming a heart inclosing the words, “IT’S A HEART ISSUE”, with the admonition, “Give what’s in your heart”. Below this is a quote from Luke 6:38, Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom.  For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.  The Hagmanns have created six sponsorship levels .  The first is the $5/month “Give-entry level sponsorship”; the second is the $50/month “It Will Come Back to You-basic package”; the third is the $100/month “Good Measure sponsorship”; the fourth is the “$1,000 Silver sponsorship”; the fifth is the “$3500/month Gold sponsorship”; and the sixth is the “$5,000 Platinum sponsorship”. Each level of sponsorship allows a business owner increasing radio broadcast and internet advertising coverage.

The final photo displays the words, SEPARATE YOURSELVES. Show the world you aren’t a tare. Off to the right is a Get Started Today! button, and below this are the words, “the H&H Marketplace is the only way to find and discover like-minded and Godly-minded businesses.”

One of the businesses which has repeatedly had advertising on the Hagmann radio broadcasts is the Honest to Goodness Toffee Store.Their website can be found at honesttogoodness toffee.com.  They also have a Facebook page, which is subtitled, “Candy Store- Food and Restaurant”. When one attempts to discover the physical location of this restaurant, the only address provided turns out to be a UPS store, where the box number assigned is called a Suite Number.  On the Toffee website, the owner offers to give several discounts if you are a listener of the Hagmanns, and in one instance if you are also a listener of John B. Wells.

Honest to goodness, Aurora Justicia, don't tell me you are now reviewing candy stores?

Honest to goodness, Aurora Justicia, don’t tell me you are now reviewing candy stores?

 

honest to goodness sponsorship (2)

What was Nathan Leal’s crime that he was given an email notice to cease and desist from being the suspected source for the loss of income of the Hear The Watchmen Conference? The Founders here are willing to sell tickets at half off!! Maybe they should cease and desist from this promotion.

 

When I first started looking at the problems with the Hear The Watchmen conference, I noted that a Jeannie Moore with the same telephone number as the Honest To Goodness Toffee website, was assisting with the financial transactions of this conference.  This particular reference has now been removed, and the email address of Michael Scott Kerr is the new point of communication. In the beginning of my interest in this story, I only knew that a man who called himself Mike Whitestone and his wife Jeannie were the founders of this conference. Steve Quayle in the January 6, 2016 Hagmann Report broadcast  referred to them as “a well meaning couple” who wanted to duplicate the success of the Whitestone Remnant Conference. I guess Michael (Mike) Scott Kerr AKA Mike Moore AKA Mike Whitestone was willing to adopt any identity as long as it served the marketing needs of his visions. I would have never been able to make these name connections if it had not been for the sleuthing skills of John Little at Omega Shock who wrote a January 29, 2016 post which he entitled, My Report on Nathan Leal.

John Little is to be commended for reproving the works of darkness which have attempted to cover over this entire controversy. I had never paid much  attention to  OmegaShock, but on January 24th I received an anonymous tip saying, “hear the watchman conference attacks John Little”. So I started checking into who this person John Little is.  It turns out that John Little displays a great deal more honesty and  sincere concern for the commission of sins done in the name of Jesus Christ, than do these Marketplace Christians.

What is interesting about John Little’s report is that he is able to provide the missing puzzle pieces to this entire Nathan Leal/Ted Broer/Hear The Watchmen Conference controversy.  I had not been able to identify the real name, and therefore the actual shady background, of Mike Whitestone.  What I found interesting about John Little’s investigation is that his thoughts mirrored my own in the areas where I was able to make an independent investigation.  The missing piece of the puzzle was Mike Whitestone’s real name.  Are we to presume that the premier investigators, Doug and Joe Hagmann did not know the real name and the background of the founders of the Hear The Watchmen Conference, of which they head the roster of speakers?  Did they not know the behind the scenes conflict of interest inherent in the words Watchmen/Christian/Marketplace/Conference?

One of the fascinating things to come out of this investigation which was conducted by John Little, is the email cease and desist notice written by Mike Kerr to Nathan Leal and his wife.Hear the watchmen email threat (2)

 

We must remember that this Cease and Desist email was written by a man, who under the name of Mike Whitestone, set up a Go Fund Me Account, hoping to raise $100,000.hear the watchmen go fund me (2)

 

Here is a warning made by someone who dealt in the past with Mike Kerr and his fundraising on behalf of Military vets. The entire OC Weekly article dated August 21, 2008 entitled Controversial Philanthropist Michael Scott Kerr’s New Career As A Wrapper can be read here.

from the OC Weekly article written 8/21/2008 by G. Arellano

from the OC Weekly article written 8/21/2008 by G. Arellano of OC Weekly

Maybe someone should send a Cease and Desist Letter to Michael Kerr AKA Mike Whitestone.  Oh yeah, someone did.  Thanks John Little, your articles accomplished that!

No thanks to Doug and Joe Hagmann, whose Marketplace interests have subverted their ability to follow their own scriptural motif, And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.  Ephesians 5:11.

How about replacing your banner with this scripture: For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ:  Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.  Philippians 3:18-19

How about obeying your own admonition at the Hagmann Christian Marketplace?  Separate Yourselves.  Show the world you aren’t a tare…!!!

hagmann market place tares (2)

Cloven Tongues of Strange Fire: The Continuing Controversy of The Hear The Watchmen Conference

Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own:  who is lord over us?  Psalm 12:4

PREFACE:  The book of Acts 2:1-11 makes it clear that on the day of Pentecost, when those in one accord who were filled with the Holy Ghost  “began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance”, they were not speaking gibberish, but in known languages. If you are unfamiliar with the whole body of scriptures which deal with speaking in tongues; one discussion can be found at the berean research institute.com site linked here. It is interesting that the divisiveness of the tongues issue is commented on, in the first hour of the Hagmann Report which had aired on January 6, 2016 entitled Fear of the Lord is absent in the land. A transcription of this first hour can be found in my January 11, 2016 post, if you desire to examine the context in which I extract the following observations.

ON JANUARY 6th, STEVE QUAYLE voiced his opinion as to the underlying reason why the Nathan Leal/Dr. Ted Broer controversy had resulted in division within the Hear the Watchmen conference scheduled for Dallas in March of 2016.  He says, “This whole thing went wrong because a, a, a, how do I say this, you can be sincere and sincerely wrong.  But a well meaning couple wanted to have a conference similar to Whitestone.  Now since I was involved in Whitestone and Pastor Lankford was there and many people are listening, I will share with you why Whitestone worked.  Because the men who came there were in agreement.  They were in agreement, number one, in the Holy Ghost, and everybody who was a speaker was baptized in the Holy Spirit.  It wouldn’t have done good to put me and some ah Baptist minister,  I’m not taking away from the Baptist minister, who speaks that that speaking in tongues is of the devil, together.  But we have a united purpose.”

A paragraph later Quayle adds, “…but it was duplicated wrong.  Of all the people that could have asked me, could have saved themselves, spared this whole thing and I’m not saying, I have all the answers.  But I am saying, I didn’t have this answer.  The need did not constitute the call.  And by the way I have basically shared everything I’m sharing publicly with the individual ah ah in an email, and his attitude was one of humility and repentance, OK?”

Some of what Mr. Quayle says is not clear to the casual listeners of this Hagmann Report, because he does not precisely identify the persons he is referring to.  But he described the Whitestone Remnant Conference as successful because the sponsors and speakers were united; whereas the upcoming conference of Hear the Watchmen appears to have had a hidden element of division, which unfortunately became apparent when one speaker publically reproved another speaker.  Thus in hindsight, it would appear that the conference founders were lacking in discernment when they selected their original speakers’ line up, because unity in the Holy Spirit was not present.

Amos 3:3 asks the rhetorical question, Can two walk together, except they be agreed?  Now what is interesting in this discussion of unity, is that Steve Quayle and Pastor David Lankford, who always present a united front, represent two different viewpoints in this matter of what constitutes walking in agreement with other professing Christians.  

In this same radio broadcast, just minutes before Steve Quayle speaks,  Pastor David Lankford says this:  “Marvin Rosenthal is a good friend of mine.  We were coming back from Israel and we were sitting on the tour bus going back to the airport.  He looked at me and said, David, let me ask you a question. What is your affiliation as far as denomination?  I said, well brother Rosenthal, I am a Pentecostal.  He looked at me and smiled real big and he said, That’s why I’m very careful now how I pick my fights.  Because I support the ___?( Note, I could not discern the word here, when I transcribed the audio) mission work in Israel.  He’s a good Baptist brother.  He doesn’t believe in talking in tongues but I do.  But you see I can work with that man and because the man happens to have wisdom to say you know what?  this man helping me do mission work in Israel, though we disagree with this little doctrinal thing we’re not going to fall out over it.  And this is what happens.”

So while Pastor Lankford is able to walk in agreement with someone who does not speak in tongues, Steve Quayle illustrates one of his points on the subject of unity by emphasizing that  he could not walk in agreement with a Baptist minister who thought tongues are of the devil. (Now there is an interesting difference of opinion, waiting for just the right opportunity to split the foundation of Unity wide open, if I ever saw one.)

As a Baptist who has witnessed two egregious church splits, I know how a little crack in the foundation stone can become a great divide.  The Song of Moses in Deuteronomy 32, describes many examples of division and was written “that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel” (Dt. 31:19). One rock split is noted in verses 4 & 5, “He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment:  A God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.  They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children:  they are a perverse and crooked generation.”

The original speakers list of the Hear the Watchman Conference, has been modified to remove the names of Nathan Leal, Dr. Ted Broer and Sharon Broer.  Currently, Russ Dizdar, Michael Boldea, Jr., Josh Tolley, and Sheila Zilinsky have been added to the roster.  Presumably, Unity has been restored, right? They are all walking in one accord, and speaking with the tongues of fire of the Holy Spirit, right?  There is no possibility that strange fire has been used to burn the incense which now ascends from the golden altar of their prayers, right?

So why are we discovering another split in the foundation of this conference? In this continuation of the Nathan Leal/ Dr. Ted Broer controversy, we find an article was written January 15, 2016 by John Little of Omega Shock entitled Sin in the Church.  He begins with a lament for the sin he has witnessed in American churches, and then proceeds to comment on what he observed when he first heard about the Leal/Broer controversy. Some of John Little’s comments which I have excerpted are as follows:

“Unfortunately that experience leads me to the belief that we are allowing Nathan Leal to be unfairly brutalized.  And yes, I really do mean ‘brutalized’.  To be fair to those that are doing the ‘brutalizing’, I doubt that they were given the whole picture.  Their anger and wrath were inflamed by weak Christians, and a man who has engaged in heresy and deception.  That man of heresy and deception is Ted Broer.  I only name names when the evidence is incontrovertible.  I’ve had misgivings about Ted from the first day that I heard him speak.  But, my operational area was different from his, so I left it to others to deal with.  Unfortunately, I was requiring Nathan to deal with this-and take the heat.…”

“Ted Broer has chosen to be in the limelight and has also chosen to preach heresy, and then lie about it.  His sin is obvious and clear.  Withholding his name would be a sin on my part. Here are the sins and heresies that I have observed:  Ted Broer made claims about Nathan Leal that were not true.  Nathan came to Ted in peace and concern, and Ted responded with anger and retribution.  Nathan’s concerns were valid and correct.  Ted lied.  Furthermore, my suspicion is that Ted has engaged in a whispering campaign in an attempt to impugn Nathan’s reputation…..It is impossible for there to be so much smoke, without a fire.”

John Little describes why he considers Ted Broer’s statements on The Hagmann Report to be heresy.  He then goes on to say, “People were upset with Nathan Leal because his exposure of those lies has put the conference in Dallas in question”.  And then John Little makes some suggestions about how the people contributing to this situation might make amends.

On January 22, 2016, John Little wrote another article entitled Love of the Truth and Cognitive Dissonance.  At the end of the main body of his commentary, he provides an update on the Nathan Leal controversy to those who had made further inquiries to him.  Some of the interesting excerpts of his statements are as follows:  “Nathan Leal is NOT GUILTY of ANY of the charges leveled against him. Up until this past week, I had been thinking that the largest part of the guilt fell upon the shoulders of Ted Broer.  To my dismay, I have found that this in not the case.  And yes, the proper word is DISMAY.  I am incredibly grieved that there is another name that is at the heart of this.  This person lies within the organization bringing about the HearTheWatchmen conference in Dallas, March 18-20, 2016.”

“I do not believe that the speakers at this conference understand the true nature of this person.  If they did, I do not think that they would have signed up to be a part of it.  Unfortunately for him, some of those speakers are beginning to find out and have been threatened by him.  You will notice that three people have disappeared from the original roster of speakers.  I believe that you can do the math.  Let me be clear that I would not have known about this person, unless he had publicly attacked me, making false claims. When he did that, I began to see a deeper corruption at work.  And then, some of you stepped forward – privately and publicly –  with important information.  I am very upset by what I have uncovered.

“….Well, there’s worse than Ted Broer.….Allow me to also leave a message to the person at the heart of all this:  Do not threaten me with a lawsuit.  I will go public with any and all communication that you and your representatives make with me.  If the person at the heart of this case, repents and resigns, I will do my best to soften the blow.  I do not wish anyone to feel hurt, not even those who are guilty.  But, I love the truth, and I will tell the truth.

If you are interested in following this controversy, it is important that you read the above two links to John Little’s articles, so as to understand the entire context of his commentary on this issue.  I have excerpted parts which I found interesting, but Little’s entire posts display his theological analysis of this particular situation. In general, I agree with most of his observations; however, Nathan Leal is a problem unto himself when it comes to his dreams and prophecies and his long-time association with the Hagmanns. Even if this current rift which has come to the surface were to be cemented over, there still remain the cracks in the foundations of the underlying  Charismatic theology, which represent departures from the Scriptures as a whole.

What many people have discovered when they attempt to discuss such matters with some of these Christian Alternative Media stars, is that they are blocked, censored and threatened.  This particular Leal/Broer controversy is just one such example.   While I give Leal credit for bringing this matter to light, he quietly stepped back into the darkness after a very short time in the public view. His articles on who are the real Watchmen are not pointed enough, given that he had been in the Inner Circle of Trust of the Hagmanns, as a repeat guest over a long period of time, and had been a silent partaker in their sins as Watchmen who claim they were anointed of God.   To my knowledge, I have never heard Leal speak out on  behalf of  those other Christians who were publicly reviled for speaking the truth about the actions of  The Inner Circle of Trust.

UPDATE 1/29/2016 John Little at Omega Shock has written a new post called My Report on Nathan Leal

The Script Written in Blood of the Coming War of Christian Vs. Christian

Pastor David Lankford has long referred to himself as a Scriptorian.  I was once discussing this fact with another person and we got into a slighty humorous but fruitless discussion of the definition of the word Scriptorian.  I understood it to mean a person who liked to do calligraphy, like the monks of old time who decorated copies of the Bible. scribe The person I was speaking with thought it meant an expert on the Bible who had memorized scriptures. The problem with the word scriptorian is that it cannot be found in the largest and older dictionaries, at least in the main library I wander through.  On the internet, I found two people arguing about the definition, and one of them kept saying that he couldn’t find the word in the dictionary either.   Jack Van Impe was for years referred to as The Walking Bible, because supposedly he had memorized the entire Bible; but I can’t recall anyone referring to him as a Scriptorian.

When I entered the word into an internet search engine, I found that this word is widely used by the Mormons.  I did locate one Primitive Baptist church site which had a glossary of old time church slang words used down here in the south, and the word scriptorian was mentioned.  In this latter day sense, the word means someone who memorizes a great deal of scripture, and a Master Scriptorian is someone who memorizes even more than that, but no one defines what quantity must be memorized in order to achieve this notable title. Coming from a Baptist background, we had pastors which recited the scriptures by memory in their sermons, as they paced back and forth before the congregation, or wandered down the aisles preaching to the back row.

In my case, I am not good at rote memorization. In the fifth grade we had to memorize the Gettysburg Address, and I could not get past the second or third sentence.  The day I had to prove myself before the teacher I began to cry, and my best friend asked what was wrong.  “I can’t remember the Gettsyburg Address”  I wailed.  “Ahh, so what?  What does it matter anyway.  I didn’t even try to memorize that thing”, she said.  That day I was set free.  I started to question the importance of what I had been told was required of me.  So when I had been told to memorize the Scriptures by rote, I took another approach which has served me well.  I decided to take a verse and try to understand it so thoroughly that my heart knew the words intimately.  As I read the scriptures through, I began to discover that my mind was creating an in-built concordance which allowed me to locate the placement of certain key verses in the different books of  the Bible.

So why am  I even bringing this subject up? Well, in the January 6, 2016 Hagmann Report which I transcribed here, Lankford, the self-proclaimed scriptorian,  quotes some twenty plus sections of the scriptures as he criticizes those who criticize him.   In the same radio broadcast,  Steve Quayle also reproves some unidentified persons for thinking that Doug or Joe Hagmann ought to know the Bible, saying that neither has ever claimed to be scriptorians. So here we see the use of this word scriptorian, whose precise meaning we have to guess at,  which is used by both Lankford and Quayle to establish levels of  Biblical expertise.

This raises the natural question as to why Doug Hagmann, who once attended a Catholic seminary for a period of time, has been exempted by Steve Quayle from understanding basic Biblical truths. Did he not go to seminary hoping to study the scriptures?  Does not even the average Christian so-called pewsitter have a responsibility to attempt to study the Bible for himself? And who are these people anyway who assert authority over the person in the pew through the use of nebulous titles and degrees?  Now sometimes higher education does result in a deeper investigation of the doctrine of the Bible, and such scholars and pastors are to be given double honor for edifying the body of Christ with their knowledge. However, we are warned of a group of men referred to as the Nicolaitans, who promote the doctrine of being conquerors over the church.

A  huge question mark arose in my mind,  when I first heard something which was said by Pastor Lankford at the beginning of  the January 6th radio show.  Here is what he said:  “Now no one preaches any harder against sin than myself, but I have been accused in the last several weeks of being a compromiser, of being two faced, being labile.  I have one lady who emailed me and said you need to swallow your pride.  You’ve not corrected the doctor and mast your lot with the other gentleman.  I don’t cast my lots with no man.  Moses didn’t ask who’s on his side.  That’s what Korah asked.  Moses said, Who’s on the Lord’s side?  I ask you tonight, Whose side are you on?  I’m on nobody’s side.  I don’t take sides.  I’m going to walk with God, because God is always and forever right.  God is not full of error,  his word is not full of error, and my ministry has had a shadow cast over it because I did not react.  Now listen to what I just said.  My personal ministry, I have 20-30 emails myself.  The Hagmanns have had hundreds.”

Now of course, the main point that the Christian is to take the Lord’s side, and not be a respecter of persons, is something which we can all agree on.  But for Lankford to assert his impartiality towards men, given his respecting the persons of Steve Quayle and Doug Hagmann over and above God, ought to raise a few eyebrows.  Immediately, “the concordance in my mind” noted that two Old Testament stories had been intertwined like a vine as if they illustrated the same point, which they do not. Pastor Lankford does not tell his listeners that the Moses quote actually comes from Exodus 32:26 which says, “Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the Lord’s side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him”.  This is a different historical event from the Korah rebellion.  The background of the Exodus story is that Moses went up the mountain, and when he did not return as quickly as the people would have liked, they had Aaron make them a molten calf which they worshipped and sacrificed to, saying, “these be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.”

Exodus 32:31 says, “And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold”. One cannot help but notice the irony of the context of the verse which Pastor Lankford quoted, as his great friend, Steve Quayle, is certainly noted for making gods of gold, which he sells against the backdrop of a coming disaster scenario.

Now in verse 27, Moses instructs the Levites who answered the call, Who is on the LORD’S side with this instruction:  “Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his neighbor”.  Did you get that?  The Israelites sinned a great sin, and the Levites, by coming to the LORD’s side, and not being a respecter of persons, were instructed to slay their brothers.  This act established the Levites as the priest class of Israel.  Blood on the Altar, brother slaying brother; the basic theme of Tom Horn’s book Blood on the Altar, The Coming War between Christian Vs. Christian.

Now the other Old Testament story which Pastor Lankford alludes to regards Korah, who represents the rebel asking who is on his side? Although Lankford does not cite the scripture reference, this story is found in Numbers 16, and no where in this story does Moses ask who is on the LORD’s side.  Now this story  involves Korah, who is the son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, gathering 250 “princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown” against Moses and Aaron. The complaint which they made was that “Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them:  and the LORD is among them:  wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?”  This is the Old Testament version of a New Testament Baptist Church split.

This matter was resolved by Moses through prayer whereby  Korah and his company were to take censers and put fire therein.  It would be the LORD himself who would show the congregation who in fact was the LORD’s chosen for the positions of authority granted to Moses and Aaron.

To summarize, Pastor Lankford has likened to Korah,  the hundreds of emailers who wrote the Hagmanns and him.  Perhaps he views himself as a sort of Aaron, in this whole embarrassing situation involving Leal and Dr. Broer.  I have read comments on the internet suggesting that Steve Quayle considers himself to be a sort of Moses figure.  Intertwined with this, is the situation of the golden calf event, where subsequently the priesthood of Israel was established based on the loyalty of the Levites to God, which was proven by the shedding of the blood of their own brothers.

There are other Old Testament references used in Lankford’s January 6th monologue.  At the very start,  he uses Exodus 20:26 to illustrate the fact that God hates the flesh. Since most of the listeners to the Hagmann radio show are professing Christians, you would think it would be natural to quote Romans 8:8, “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” But no, Pastor Lankford has chosen another Old Testament command dealing with the priesthood which says, “Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon”.  This is in reference to verses 24-25, “An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen:  in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.  And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone:  for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.”  In modern day America, the popular motif which comes to mind is the hewn stone altar pyramid on the dollar bill, which of course the Christian Alternative Media says will be destroyed shortly.

Later, Steve Quayle refers back to the prayer which had been spoken by Pastor Lankford in which he used the image of anointing oil running down.  Quayle says, “…And that’s what David prayed.  I don’t think you know the scripture but basically he was praying about the oil that ran down Aaron’s beard, the anointing oil”. Now the specific scripture reference is not noted.  I am guessing it might be Exodus 29:7, “Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.”  This chapter deals with the consecration of the ministers of the priest’s office.

At the conclusion of the first hour of the January 6, 2016 Hagmann Report radio broadcast, Steve Quayle brings up the introduction he wrote to Tom Horn’s book  Blood On The Altar, saying “when I wrote the introduction, see how prescient this is”.  On January 17, 2016 he quoted this entire introduction as a QAlert over at his website, stevequayle.com.  The theme of this book deals with a coming bloody war of Christians against Christians.  Reference was also made to this very book in the article dated February 10, 2015 called Setting The Record Straight: Joint Response Addressing the Character Assassinations Underway.   If you have not read this article recently, it would do well to reflect on what is established by Doug Hagmann and Steve Quayle regarding their self proclaimed purity as the Watchmen of God.  Also note the end quotes concerning Tom Horn’s Blood On the Altar, and the veiled threat implied. The final words are written in blood red, saying Indeed, there is Blood on the Altar.

A Script fit for the Great Scriptorians hoping to establish a new Priesthood upon the altar of the blood of Christians against Christians.

Steve Quayle as “Zorro” Defends The Man in the Ivory Tower Against E-Mailers, and Serves Up Dr. Ted Broer and Nathan Leal as Shish-Kabobs

This post today has two sections:  The first section represents my notes which I began taking on the Hagmann Report which aired January 6, 2016 entitled Fear of the Lord is absent in the land.  As I made notes, I began to reflect on what I was hearing, so I then decided to continue on by transcribing every word which was spoken.  Thus it became easier to discern the patterns present in the words,  which might be missed if one only listens to the audio.  This transcript stops when the break is taken at the end of the first hour.  The second section of this post,  represents a few of my thoughts on what I had just read, in light of what I have  been observing over the past couple of years about the Doug Hagmann/Steve Quayle corner of the Christian Alternative Media world.

SECTION ONE: Partial notes, followed by transcription of every word spoken until end of first hour of the program

At the beginning of this show, Joe Hagmann has been placed in the position of opening the show, as his father Doug Hagmann has taken his wife Renee to the hospital, because she was not feeling well.  The featured guests of this program are Pastor David Lankford of The Voice of Evangelism, International Ministries, and Steve Quayle of Steve Quayle.com The title of this program concerns the lack of the fear of God in the land, but the beginning of this audio represents the joint response of Lankford and Quayle to the Nathan Leal and Dr. Ted Broer controversy, which resulted in Leal publically  resigning from the upcoming March 2016 conference in Dallas, sponsored by Hear the Watchmen.com.

I just now went over to that website, and note that the latest inspired speakers (their words, not mine)  are Doug Hagmann, Joe Hagmann, Michael Boldea, Jr., Pastor David Lankford, Paul McGuire, Russ Dizdar, John B. Wells, L.A. Marzulli, Pastor Billy Crone, Coach Dave Daubenmire, Reverend Flip Benham, Gregg Jackson and Jon Robberson.   It appears at this time that Dr. Ted Broer has been removed as a speaker.  There is a double-starred note at the bottom which says, Speakers subject to change without notice.  Please refer to  this website often for current information.  Well, someone, besides myself and Aurora Justicia, has a sense of humor.  You won’t find that very often in this alternative universe which we are wandering through.

My beginning notes:  The image of the video shows The Hagmann Report:  Truth unfiltered.  Behind these words seems to be an image of earth, being destroyed by fire, a scorched earth policy? When Steve Quayle begins to speak, his latest book Empire Beneath the Ice is shown as well as his website. Steve Quayle’s introduction…”this night will be different, and I’m going to turn it immediately to David and then we’ll go as the spirit always leads us because we have to open with prayer.  There is so much coming against us, there is so much coming at us; it’s coming from without and within, and I think people, Joe just don’t have ah ah the right understanding of scripture because the Bible talks about not just a famine for food, but as I can share and David  will share, whenever there is a famine for the word of God, whenever the people of Light, and I’m not talking New Age now, I’m talking God’s light…that light is Jesus Christ…”

David Lankford begins his monologue discussing that “it is imperative that we pray, today people will spend 6 hours on the internet, 6 hours gossiping, and they will not spend 6 minutes in prayer; that’s the whole problem, that’s why we are where we are”…God hates the flesh, Exodus 20:26 tells how Moses was to build the brazen altar with a ramp, rather than steps,  so that God would not seek the nakedness of the priest as he walked up.  Lankford prays, asking for wisdom.  He says that “I don’t want people to hear what I have to say, I want them to hear what God has to say”.  He quotes the first part of Revelation 2:17 about having ears to hear.  I ask, since there are several Bible verses which quote this same phrase, why did he choose Rev. 2:17 which in the unquoted part of the verse refers to a white stone, as in Whitestone conference?   Lankford makes this interesting statement, “…if I made the wrong decision, if I did the wrong thing, I could obliterate the church.”  Now I have lived through two very ugly Baptist church splits.  I attended one Independent Baptist Church that had been split three times before I arrived, and the result was that there were three other churches in town which were born of those church fights.  So the above remark is a curiosity to me, and as I start to listen closer, my notes  become more word for word, until I find myself transcribing every word spoken.

Pastor David Lankford:…I pray that everything said tonight would be received in the spirit of Christ and the love of God.  Put a watch by my mouth, put a watch by Steve’s mouth, put a watch by Joe’s mouth, that we do nothing that would be harmful or detrimental to the body of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Father, there is already enough damage that has been done.  We pray tonight that you would bring healing to the body of for you’re the head and the church is your body….and that clarity, understanding and that profound wisdom will be presented tonight and that accuracy in your word and in your spirit would be declared above all things, Lord.  Keep us now in the hollow of your hand, Father, and we will give you praise for it all for Jesus’ name we humbly pray.  Amen.

I want to begin in Colossians 3:25, “But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.” Colossians 4:6 says, “Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.”  One of the greatest issues in the body of Christ is that people never bother to listen to God and rather than getting counsel from God, man’s nature is to turn to another man or another sister, or to another brother and ask for advice.  Now that’s good.  Psalm 1:2 “But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Proverbs 1:25 “But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:” When you are shallow in the word of God, you don’t understand God’s reproof, nor do you understand God’s rebuke.  You need balance in the word of God, know fundamentals of Christianity, then you are very careful in how you deal with matters.  I have been a Pastor for 27 years, had to deal with things detrimental in the church.  I knew if I made the wrong statement, if I made the wrong decision, if I did the wrong thing, I could obliterate the church.  I resigned the church in 2012, and decided to take on “evangelist” title once again instead of pastor.  I was astounded at the emails and the letters asking me to please not to do that.  Would you please retain the title “Pastor”?  You’re my Pastor, you’re my advisor, I look to you to give me strength, I look to you to admonish me, I look to you to help me navigate through difficulties.  So I just went back to calling myself Pastor Lankford for the sake of the people, because I’m a pastor and I have a care for sheep.  They are the sheep of His pasture.  It’s my job to pastor the flock and to lead the flock to green pastures, lead the flock to still waters.

Regretfully, the ground recently has been scorched, there is not much green grass, and the waters are tempestuous, and there is not very much still water.   Not many today in the church have Wisdom, “the ability to execute your knowledge correctly”.  Proverbs 18:12 “before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honor is humility. (Proverbs 18:13 not cited) “He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him”.  So if you don’t know a matter in its totality, if you don’t know all of the details, and all you hear is what he said, she said, they said, you don’t have all the facts.  It’s a great aberration of a court of law when the plaintiff and the defendant do not have the same information.  The judge gets very upset when someone has sequestered and kept back a portion of information and not allowed the other party to have that information.  That’s called Corruption, that’s called Vileness; that’s called Wickedness; that’s called Criminality.  Why do people do that?  Because they want to harm, they want to injure and not suffer anyone to know the facts.  Now since this issue has risen over the last several weeks, I have been castigated to no end.

I have  been told I was a proudful man because I did not castigate, criticize, or impinge one man, and stand with the other man.  Well the reason I didn’t make any comments, I wanted to wait till I heard the matter in its entirety.  Because he that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.  I can say unequivocally tonight I have absolutely no shame.  I have absolutely no disgrace.  Neither do I have any dishonor in my personal life, and I have maintained my integrity.  David said, my integrity hath preserved me.  You see you can talk a lot of talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, that’s where the aberration takes place.

There are a lot of people who say they are this and they say they are that, they that said to Christ, Have we not prophesied in thy name, have we not done many wonderful works in thy name?  And he will say depart from me, ye workers of iniquity, for I know you not.  When you read that passage, the seventh chapter of the book of Matthew, you must read it very concisely and very clearly and understand what’s being said.  Many will say to me in that day, Have we not prophesied?  God did not say they prophesied, they said they prophesied.  They make the accusations, they make the connotations.  They are the ones doing the talking, and they say We have done thus and thus and thus and thus, and done may wonderful works, but He will profess unto them, I never knew you.

So what we need to understand is that a church is a body.  The church is many members and we are to be fitly joined together which makes up the body of Christ.  Christ is the head, and the church is his body.  We all have different roles, we all play different parts in the body of Christ.  But no two people are alike.  Thank God for that.  But when there is a problem in the church, the first thing that should be done is ask God how do we deal with the matter.   Don’t call Pastor Lankford, don’t call Steve Quayle.  Don’t call Joe or Doug Hagmann.  You’re supposed to get on your knees and talk to God.  Prayer is a great restrainer.  Prayer is not thee Restrainer that Paul spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2:7, but prayer is a restrainer in a person’s life.  And I know from experience and many of you listening to me tonight you also know that by empirical knowledge and experience.

You are dealing with an issue but somehow the Holy Spirit was able to get ahold of your heart and you got on your knees and you prayed about a matter before you had done anything.  And when you stop praying and getting into the presence of God, the Holy Ghost will touch your heart, he will touch your life, he will admonish you, he will reprove you, he will rebuke you.  He may edify you, he may show you something that you don’t know yet but because you took it to the Lord in prayer, you hear Steve Quayle say all the time, Take this to the Lord, take this to the Lord, find out from God because everyone of us are fallible. I am as fallible as the next man.  The only thing redeemed about David Lankford is his spirit and his soul.  My flesh that the Lord carries will see corruption and die and go back to the earth from which I came.  But too many times as Paul said, They have a knowledge of God but they’re zealous.  Zeal is a terrible thing when it’s not harnessed by the Holy Ghost.  It can be disrupted, it can harm, it can injure, because they have a zeal.

Any of you guys that watch football have seen a football player lose his control when his temper and he suffers the whole team to be penalized and they can even lose the game, because of one stupid act.  And the coach looks at them like, I can’t believe you did that.  Why?  He lost his composure and the church today we’re too quick to react when we should respond.  I preached a message some years ago about …(general notes end, transcription begins)

I will be 61 years of age next month.  I’ve learned before I do anything for the most part meditate, contemplate, and debate in my mind.  Because there are going to be repurcussions of what I do.  You can throw one pebble in the pond, you don’t get one ripple, you get scores of them.  And so, Paul is telling in Colossians chapter 4 verse 6 let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt.  What is salt? Salt is a preservative.  Salt if it is applied to your spiritual lips will be preserve you, and keep you from saying something.  If the salt is not there, you’re flesh is corrupt and your flesh is rotten.

Isaiah 6 said when he saw the Lord high and lifted up, he said, what?  I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell among unclean people.  There was a prophet of God realizing how corrupt his flesh is.  All of us need to understand we are corrupt people in flesh and if we operate in the flesh we only reap more corruption.  Galatians 6:7 “Be not deceived God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”  For he that soweth to his spirit, he that soweth to his spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting, but he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption. You can ask God to forgive you after you have sown to the flesh, but you will still reap the corruption.  In Psalms 23 David said in verse 6, Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all of the days of my life and I will dwell in the house of the Lord.  As you live your life and you walk your walk day sowing seed, the way you know you are sowing good seed is when you look to the back of your journey and you see goodness and mercy following you.  I ask you tonight in looking back over the last few weeks what is following you?  Is goodness?  Is mercy following you?

Or is there strife, contention, clamor, backbiting, evil, disgusting putrifying sores?  What’s behind you? Why is it behind you?  I will tell you why it is behind you.  You’ve not been sowing the right seed, because God said don’t think you’re going to mock me.  You’re going to reap what you sow, and if you sow to your spirit, you will reap spiritual things.  You sow to your flesh, you reap corruption.  You’ve heard me quote this passage most of you scores of times, Romans 8:5, “For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  Because the carnal mind is enmity (or hostile), against God: it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.  So that they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now I want you to notice clearly in verse 6.  For to be carnally minded is death.  We’ve been experiencing death of relationships, friendships, etc. etc.  Why?  Because we have been carnally minded, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.  When people are spiritually minded there is life, that means there is growth, there is maturity, there is blessings and there is also peace, because of spiritual mindedness.  Now regretfully the peace has been broken, and stife and envy and clamor and backbiting has taken away the peace of the placidity.

Now no one preaches any harder against sin than my self, but I have been accused in the last several weeks of being a compromiser, of being two faced, being labile.  I have one lady who emailed me and said you need to swallow your pride.  You’ve not corrected the doctor and cast your lot with the other gentleman.  I don’t cast my lots with no man.  Moses didn’t ask who’s on his side.  That’s what Korah asked.  Moses said, Who’s on the Lord’s side?  I ask you tonight, Whose side are you on?  I’m on nobody’s side.  I don’t take sides.  I’m going to walk with God, because God is always and forever right.  God is not full of error, his word is not full of error, and my ministry  has had a shadow cast over it because I did not react.  Now listen to what I just said. My personal ministry, I have 20-30 emails myself.  The Hagmanns have had hundreds.

My ministry has been darkened.  My integrity has been questioned.  My ministry and the word that I preached has been accused of being compromised, and being two faced because I didn’t pick up someone else’s offense and go one way or the other.  And if you think this preacher is going to be sullied, and soiled and stained because of other men and their evil actions, you are badly mistaken.  Because you see before you know the matter you need to pray about it.  Now to write me an email and tell me I need to swallow my pride because this doctor is ah wrong because he’s my friend, I need to swallow my pride, can I tell you, I don’t even know the man, I don’t even know what he looks like.  But I was accused of being his friend.  And so because I had so much pride, I could not humble myself and join and cast my lot with the other gentleman.  That’s arrogancy, that’s the pride that I am speaking of.  Proverbs 8:13, “The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; pride and arrogancy.

And I have personally done nothing.  Did you know I would have not known none of this except gossipers, slanderers, and talebearers email me, phone me, and call me, I would have know none of this.  I could have went to Dallas, Texas with the cleanest, purest heart and preached what God laid on my heart and never known a thing.  Now I can be accused of slanting my sermon because I know things.  That’s what happens when you do what’s been done.  I love to preach under the unction and the leadership of the Holy Ghost.  I, I’ve preached hundreds of revivals.  I’ve preached in hundreds of churches and I’ve walked in parsonages and just set my suitcase and my garment bag down and the pastor starts and I say, Sir, Shut up.  Why you telling me to shut up?  Because do not affect my mind with your church problems.  Let God show me, use me and let me preach accordingly.  But when you spew your refuse here before I even get to the pulpit the first time you’re affecting my knowledge.

There is bliss in ignorance, not knowing, but you don’t have to worry, God will reveal the truth to men of God and to women of God, when they seek God.  And I will tell pastors not to tell me your church problems.  I don’t want to know.  Because if they need to be dealt with the Holy Ghost and the Word of God will deal with these problems.  Remember Hebrews 4:12, “For the word of God is quick and powerful and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart”.  The Word of God discerns people because it is Jesus, the word of Jesus, it discerns people’s hearts.  I don’t have to discern the heart, my job is to preach the Word of God and if that word is preached under the anointing of the Holy Ghost, it will prick men’s hearts.  So I don’t want the outside information because I am a human being and it will affect my obedience to the Holy Ghost, so I said I will say that while preaching someone will say that somebody’s been talking to him.  That’s why I will tell the men, keep your problems to yourself-keep your church problems to yourself.  Let God deal with it.

If there’s a right way,  there is a wrong way.  There’s God’s way there is the devil’s way.  We must deal with everything in God’s way.  And that’s why God gave us elders and gave us mature men and women who can have wisdom and any man lacks wisdom, James One and Five said, “Let him ask of God and he will give liberally he will you wisdom.  And in these circumstances, situations, we need wisdom more than anything else.  Because here’s the problem.  Irreparable damage gets done and it can never be repaired.  Did you hear what I said?

Joe Hagmann: Absolutely.

Pastor David Lankford:  You can have forgiveness.  You can have the relationship mended, the brokenness can be healed, but the irreparable damage sometimes can never be lessened or mitigated because if you look there’s a scar.  That scar is a reminder of the __? if I have a football scar in my hand, 6 stitches put into it playing football.  I am nearly 61 years of age but that scar is bad- a reminder of how I got hurt on the football field,  No, it don’t hurt no more, but I can still see the scar and I know what caused the hurt.  Galatians 6:17, “From henceforth let no man trouble me for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus Christ.  We’re all going to bear marks.  Those marks are a reminder they be good reminders or they can be bad reminders of circumstances and situations.  I want the marks to be because I fought a good fight.  I finished the course and I kept the faith.  Those are the marks I want in my body in my life and in my life and in my mind and in my conscience.  And if those are not the kind of marks you have, then you have the wrong kind of marks and you’re fighting the wrong fight.

Paul had said to Timothy in I Timothy 6:12.  Fight the good fight of faith; now needless to say there is a lot of fighting going on, but is it a good fight?  Marvin Rosenthal is a good friend of mine.  We were coming back from Israel and we were sitting on the tour bus going back to the airport.  He looked at me and said, David, let me ask you a question.  What is your affiliation as far as denomination?  I said, well brother Rosenthal, I am a Pentecostal.  He looked at me and he smiled real big and he said, That’s why I’m very careful now how I pick my fights.  Because I support the __? mission work in Israel.  He’s a good Baptist brother.  He doesn’t believe in talking in tongues but I do.  But you see I can work with that man and because the man happens to have wisdom to say you know what? this man helping me do mission work in Israel, though we disagree with this little doctrinal thing we’re not going to fall out over it.  And this is what happens.

I don’t want to lessen some of the things I regretfully heard, about error in scripture, if some of the things I heard were absolutely erroneous, egregious.  It’s totally so unbiblical it begs description, but that does not give anyone the right to start castigating, slandering, impinging  and piling on.  There is always the right way to  handle ___? and regretfully it wasn’t handled spiritually and doctrinally.  And the protocol was totally skewed.  Proverbs 14:12, “There is  a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death”. If it’s not God’s way, then it’s man’s way and that way is always going to bring corruption.  Steve, I am going to give it over to you, sir.

Steve Quayle:  Ladies and gentlemen, the issue is a really important issue, because I don’t know if it was year or two years ago we said on this very show, the sins that will destroy the body, as given to me by the Lord, were the sins of jealousy and envy.  And remember that was responsible for the same and the first murder.  One of the great travesties in Christendom, I think Pastor you will agree with, this is that a people will excuse their sin by saying God knoweth my heart.  He knows my heart.  Yes God does know your heart and hear what the scripture says, Jeremiah 17:7-10.  It’s possible to be sincere but very, very wrong.

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters. (That’s just what you said, David), and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, in other words, it will not, the tree will not experience dirth.  For the __?  that this passage exemplifies, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall case from yielding fruit.

You have the right, ladies and gentlemen, to look at the fruit.  Here it is.  “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?  I the LORD God search the heart, I try the reins, even to give to every man according to this ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.”

I observed a broken man last night.  I didn’t get to see Doug face to face, but I was on the phone with him a couple of times in the afternoon and it’s one thing I got David probably a dozen emails accusing me of the same thing, and everything.  I want to go on record and I’ll tell you why this went wrong, and where it went wrong, and not throwing any ah ah rocks at anyone.  The problem is God’s people were told to take up their cross and follow Jesus.  Jesus said, take up my cross, follow me.  People take up their cause and follow men.  That’s what Pastor Lankford just spoke about.

The idea that ah your ministry is more important than thee ah ah the help of the body is basically a scorched earth policy.  And when there’s a famine for the word in the land, and there is, number one, God’s people don’t know the word of God.  If you don’t know the Bible, you won’t know Jesus.  And I’m sorry to say that.  You can claim you do but you’ll always resort, forgive me, and fall back to that which you think you know rather than that which God has revealed.  That’s a powerful statement.  Many men come on the scene and they will say this or that or they will claim to have dreams and dreams and dreams and visions and visions and visions.  If you have one, they have five; if you’ve got three, they’ve got thirty.  And what that is a gross sign of immaturity.

And even Michael, the Scripture teaches, the archangel Michael doesn’t bring an accusation against Satan.  But he basically says, The LORD rebuke you, Satan.  Yet accusations permeate the body, yet gross, gross ah ah I would call adulteration of Matthew 18.  Matthew 18 says, you go to your brother, and I’m going to read that scripture in its entirety.  And if he won’t listen, then you take two others, but if you’re saying to the body of Christ, I did that and you won’t reveal who the elders are then you have no witnesses.  And basically, it tends to be in what I’ve experienced over forty five years of battling in this realm, that it was never exactly that way.  Some of you women that have sent me emails you need to repent, get baptized in water, and quit spewing out bile, and I’ve said in the past, battery acid.  Battery acid is corrosive once you get it on your skin.

This whole thing went wrong because a a a how do I say this, you can be sincere and sincerely wrong.  But a well meaning couple wanted to have a conference similar to Whitestone.  Now since I was involved in Whitestone and Pastor Lankford was there and many people which are listening, I will share with you why Whitestone worked.  Because the men who came there were in agreement.  They were in agreement, number one, in the Holy Ghost, and everybody who was a speaker was baptized in the Holy Spirit.  It wouldn’t have done good to put me and some ah Baptist minister, I’m not taking away from the Baptist minister, who speaks that speaking in tongues is of the devil, together.  But we have a united purpose.

God said he wanted to heal the body.  He wanted to minister to the people.  He wanted to minister to the people.  God said I’m concerned for the faith of my sheep.  I love my sheep.  I am the good shepherd and I’m going to do something special.  And that’s what was was was meant to try and be duplicated.  But it was duplicated wrong.  Of all the people that could have asked me, could have saved themselves, spared this whole thing and I’m not saying, I have all the answers.  But I am saying,  I didn’t have this answer.  The need did not constitute the call.  And by the way I have basically shared everything I’m sharing publically with the individual ah ah in an email, and his attitude was one of humility and repentance.  OK?

So here’s where things go wrong.  I can want to do God the biggest favor in the world, I can believe I am called to do this that and the other thing.  People can even put wind into my sails and say you do really good, this that or the other thing, but unless God calls you to it, it’s a vain fleshly extension.  The spirit of God always brings redemption.  Let me say that again.  The Spirit of God always brings redemption.  He’s holy.  God’s holy.  And one of the most disparaging terms that I hear people use is the “man up stairs”.  First of all it’s a scriptural ah ah and it’s a lie.  God is not a man.  For they that worship God must worship him in spirit and truth.  Or “the big guy”.  What’s that a wrestler? A W. W. Webb? I have seen, Pastor Lankford and Joe, a complete lack of honor, of respect, I have not even seen in the arguments of this situation we are talking about.  Where’s Jesus?

Let me give everybody a practical, practical, the best thing I know after everything I’ve stumbled, fallen ah needing to repent of everything.  Look where Jesus is.  Let me make this clear.  The doctor bringing up terms like Kundalini, thirteen dimensions, challenging the humanity of Jesus Christ even to the point of almost heresy.  Jesus said before Abraham, I AM.  I do not know the man.  I have no idea who he was.  Like Pastor Lankford, I got into this.  I chose not to say anything about the conference so that there would be no um what would you say ah ah doubt cast by me.  I held my peace, and what I’ve learned is the same thing that Pastor Lankford has learned.  Only a fool judges a matter before seeing both hands play out.  Before seeing both the defense and the offense.  And seeing this thing progressing, for the record I went on record with Pastor Lankford.  I went on record with Doug, I went on record with Sheila Zilinsky, because she was troubled also, at the start of this thing.  So the point is, is that the Scripture says that the mouth of two or three witnesses, let every word be established.  But I tried to stay in the background, until it was impossible to any longer stay in the background.  Because like Pastor Lankford, no matter what you say, once this sort of filth gets dumped on  your living room, you’ve got to clean the carpet.  You’ve got to bring the guys in with the ozone machine and you gotta ah reclaim all the damage done.

The scars are real.  And the wounds go away.  Once gossip is presented, its like a bullet, that you cannot recall.  It is a bullet.  The tongue can be a weapon or it can a wonderful highway of healing.  And that’s what David prayed.  I don’t think you know the scripture but basically he was praying about the oil that ran down Aaron’s beard, the anointing oil.  But I want to read this because this is Galatians 5:13-23, “For brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love, serve one another.  For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this;  Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.  But if ye bite and devour one another, devour means literally to eat a person alive with your tongue, and unfortunately Christians don’t even chew on their brothers, they just swallow them whole.

Take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.  This I say then, walk in the spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh:  and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  Now the works of the flesh are manifest, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, and heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, what did I say, that the two greatest enemies of the church, the true, when I say the church I am talking about the congregation of those who profess Jesus, envyings, murders, envyings and jealousy, drunkenness, and revellings, and such like:  of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.  But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against such there is no law.

When I wrote thee introduction see how prescient this is.  This was written 3 years ago or two years ago to Tom Horn’s Blood On The Altar.  Jesus shed his blood, but you don’t have to shed your brother’s blood.  But you don’t have to worry about someone else’s reputation, worry about does Jesus know you.  And if you don’t even name His name, I’ll make this statement, you may think you know him, but he doesn’t know you.  Scripture says that if you don’t confess him before men, then will He not confess you to his Father which is in heaven.  Matthew 10:33-36.  The title of this is when the religious persecute the righteous, and the coming wars within Christianity.  I can’t say it any better than this scripture. “But whosever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:  I came not to send peace, but a sword.”

99% of ecumenical people don’t even know the word of God.  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter against her mother in law.  And a man’s foes shall be they of his household. That goes for your own literal family as well as the family of God.  I am sorry to have to say that. 2 Timothy 3:1-5, “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God.  It is pleasing to the flesh to put down other people to try to elevate yourself, especially on the devil boards. I’m sorry it’s true.  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof:  From such turn away.  But brother you don’t know my heart, and I just don’t think Steve Quayle is even a Christian.  He’s mean.  I hear that all the time.  Yet if you go on the testimony section of hearing what people say to Doug and to Joe and to David Lankford and I, look not everyone out there drinks or eats Meow-mix as men, OK?

John 16:1-3, “These thing have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.  They shall put you out of synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.  And those things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me”.

Now ladies and gentlemen, in this whole situation I have yet and if anyone wants to do it and you know I would like to know if there has been any mention of Jesus Christ.  I could care less about the Kundalini Spirit.  I give every praise to God about the Holy Spirit.  The nonsense that Jesus was somehow not ah he wasn’t born of the flesh, but Mary carried this seed, and the sin passes through the man and Jesus was conceived through the Holy Ghost, that same Jesus who is with the Father that same Jesus who is in Colossians 1:16-17.  For in him and by him and through him are all things that consist.  In other words, He is the author and finisher of our faith.  John 16:1-3, “These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.  They shall put you out of the synagogue:  yea, the time cometh that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.  And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father nor him”.

It is fair to assume that people who do not even use the name of Jesus who can tear down Pastor Lankford and – I got to share something, Pastor Lankford is a pastor.  I have known him for 25 years and the fact that I even have to say this is why I had to call people and ask them to intercede for my attitude tonight.  David’s heart was right.  He said, Steve, just go with what the Holy Ghost tells you and by the grace of God and the intercessors I am doing that.  But the point I am trying to tell you is that he walks the walk, he talks the talk, the power of God is in his life.  So when you people are calling him proud, when you people tell him to swallow his pride, you’re speaking vomit and that is why I call you vomit brokers.  And for the record, I have no problem speaking that, because it is what the word of God says.  If you’re lukewarm, you don’t do the things you do.  It’s me, me, me, my, my,  my ministry, my work, my dreams, my visions, my, my, my, my.  If I’m the one who has to bring the presence of God because I am so anointed, why do you need the Holy Spirit, you’ve got it all, Pal!

The world is now and I’m going back, and to this I’ll turn it back to you Joe for the break. The world is now at a time when the bloodiest period of war and betrayal lies at the doorsteps of the Christian faith.  As the New World Church and New World Order emerge, there is considerable effort to being the spouse of evangelical mega stars to embrace a One World faith based on agreements that we all serve the same God, anyway.  This is total rebellion and heresy against the faith of the apostles and the prophets as revealed ahh as God’s and the revealed will of the living God.  I wrote this years ago.  There are two households in which this battle will be waged, and the stakes are eternal.  The first household is that of faith; brother will turn against brother and where they once broke bread together, they’ll break each other’s necks.  The religious mind of folks will be first to call for the government to do something, when it comes down.  Faith has always been persecuted by unbelief, and that is the way it’s going to play out amongst years ahead.  When you see a prominent Christian and when you see prominent Christian authors being featured in the mainstream press and talking about Christianity and Islam serving the same God, you know the battle is looming.

The last thing I want to say before we go we go to break is this, Doug has never billed himself as a scriptorian.  Joe has never made claims that they are.  By the way, this is a talk radio program.  You guys understand you keep attacking the messengers and when I see ego and when I see people saying, oh well I guess I hurt someone’s feelings, yeah?  Feelings usually can result in people dying.  A word fitly spoken in season is life.  A deadly word spoken in season is death.  So when I look at fruit, and all I see is confusion, when I see the people of God taking sides saying, I’m of this guy, I’m of this doctor, I’m of this watchman, I’m of that of that of that, you can’t be of Steve Quayle or of David Lankford because we don’t have our identity.  We’ve chosen to say, Lord, we’re sinners. And anything good in our life comes from you.  But because of that goodness that you’ve shown to us, we want to share with the world, and contrary to all the skeptics  and the people out there , the people from all over the world, are coming to Jesus.  Go read the testimonies on my website.  I put up one of the most beautiful testimonies that God has ever undertaken through anything on the radio, I believe, today.

You have the choice.  You can either follow Jesus or you can go into eternity arguing about your heart and God knowing your heart.  Yes, brothers and sisters, God does know our heart.  That’s why he sent Jesus because outside of the blood of Jesus our heart is desperately wicked and that’s why Satan is having a field today, what has gone on.

I thank each and everyone of you who has prayed for ah ah Doug, Renee, and this whole situation.  Ah, I’ll turn it over to you now Joe; I don’t know if we’re going to take a break now or not.

Joe Hagmann: Yep. We are at the top of the hour break right now.  And when we come back, uhh I want to get into more of what you guys so eloquently explained in hour one.

SECOND SECTION:  Commentary on my notes on the audio:

Whenever a person begins to compare and contrast a body of words, it helps to have a ruler by which you intend to measure the words.  It also helps to know in what context the words were spoken, and to know the general background of the speakers.  Much Scripture is quoted by both Pastor David Lankford and Steve Quayle, so the ruler I choose is a King James Holy Bible.  While any verses from the Bible are good and holy words, many of the verses which were quoted in the audio serve to obscure the facts of the actual situation, and do not get to the heart of the matter.

The immediate context of the words spoken, is the controversy which became public when Nathan Leal, a regular guest on the Hagmann and Hagmann radio show publically spoke out against another guest of the Hagmanns, Dr. Ted Broer, who had set forth another gospel of Jesus Christ on the December 18, 2015 show. Leal claimed in his own audio on December 30, 2015, that he had tried to first discuss his concerns with Dr. Ted Broer, and then others, and was dismissed, ignored and rudely treated. He therefore took his concerns to the internet “church” in his audio.  This audio was only up for a few days, and then removed, so that many persons who later heard of this matter, were not able to judge for themselves as to whether Leal’s concerns were accurately stated.

Apparently, this issue has become a hot button item, and numerous persons have emailed the Hagmanns, Pastor David Lankford, and Steve Quayle, and perhaps others as well.  I am an outsider looking in, therefore much of what I know is after-the-fact.  I would not have known at all about this issue, except that one of the newsletters I subscribe to, had a copy of an email alerting them that Leal had resigned from the Hear the Watchmen conference, and had received flack from Dave Hodges.

The background of the two persons featured in this audio, Pastor David Lankford, and Steve Quayle, involves their friendship which goes back many years. Many of these alternative media voices were first heard on shortwave radio, and then gradually branched out into the internet radio world. Both men are both close friends of Doug Hagmann, who like Quayle, used to be heard periodically on Coast to Coast AM. These three men form what I loosely call “the Trinity”, whether their presence is seen on the Whitestone Remnant Conference platform, or on numerous broadcasts of the Hagmann and Hagmann show.

If one were to diagram all of the guests which speak regularly on the Hagmann show, (sometimes referred to by themselves as the inner circle of trust), and then continue to diagram all of the other shows which those guests speak on, or have their own individual  stand alone shows, an interesting network will be revealed.  This network is comprised of conspiracy theorists, book sellers, gold/silver/precious metals dealers, prepper food suppliers, Christian Watchmen, pastors, tax frauds, fear mongering end times prophesiers, unnamed and unvetted financial con artists, unnamed “Intelligence Insiders” posing as ex CIA, FBI operatives, military generals, NSA etc. etc., giving the overall impression that we might be dealing with some sort of Psy-Op program set up by Who???

Well, we really have no idea of “who”, except that there always seems to be some sort of sleight of hand moving the walnut shells around so when we point to one, guess what?  There’s nothing under the walnut shell. In all of this we need to note that the major visible player here is Steve Quayle. Doug Hagmann runs the stage and is a primary speaker, with his son Joe assisting.  Pastor David Lankford is a major player with the Christian religious front of this operation, even holding communion services with Quayle. This is not just a radio talk show, as Steve Quayle said.

Lankford apparently got bent out of shape when he received some emails, and it would appear that one in particular was really a Thorn in his flesh.  I have no idea who this one lady is who emailed him; I don’t even know if Lankford and Quayle know her identity. I would be curious to see this email and their personal response to it, if any. But according to their testimony she, in effect, told Lankford to get off the fence and make a public stand, and if he did not he was full of pride, perhaps not judging this situation because of partiality. If she really did want an either/or man decision, that shows she was not stepping back to view the problem from the best vantage point.  The stand which should have been taken by Lankford should have been on doctrine, and it would not have taken more than 2-3 hours to get at the heart of the dispute, and to give us a public example of the pastoral office at its best.

So both Lankford and Quayle in this audio, lambast the emailers as gossipers, slanderers, talebearers causing strife, clamor, backbiting, dumping filth, vomit etc. and posting on devil boards because they have not prayed to God about the situation. At no time do they view the emailers as being led by Jesus Christ Himself to reprove their own works of the flesh.   Now what proof do we have, as listeners,that they even received these emails, what the true content was,  or that these people had not prayed to God prior to sending their messages to the Hagmann/Quayle/Lankford group?

Since both of the two men in question, which Quayle and Lankford both refuse to name,  were also featured guests on the Hagmann show; and the Hagmann/Quayle/Lankford trio “do church type services” on radio, the listeners have a right to an explanation from these men.   Nathan Leal in particular, despite Quayle knowing that he eats Meow-mix, has shown obvious signs of being a false prophet and sounding a little too servile in his tone of voice. Several persons have accused Leal in the past of plagiarism, and one who threatened him with a lawsuit testifies that Leal in fact had completely overhauled his website in response. Yet Leal was granted a platform for his interpretations time and again.  I was astonished that he could stand for anything, but in the end he slunk away under pressure.

Dr. Ted Broer, who I had never heard of, except to see his ads on the Hagmann sites, looks as beefy as they come.  That these two men had a “shoot-out”, where both were left crawling around on the floor, has saved me the time and effort of researching their audios and blogs in order to write an expose of them. Nathan Leal has removed his audio and apparently gone to sleep with the chickens in the hen house, and now that the beefy Dr. Ted Broer, has been removed as a speaker at the conference, it has been easy for Steve Quayle to skewer them, and roast them as shish-kabobs  over the fire.

When Lankford and Quayle use Scripture quotes against others, as both a sword and as a shield, is it any wonder when those same words come back later as a return blow, if the speakers themselves have unrepented sin? My personal opinion is that this whole alternative media set-up is ripe for God’s judgment.     Romans 2: 1-3, warns,  “Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest:  for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.  But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.”

The most curious thing which comes out of this audio,  is the image which Pastor Lankford paints of himself.  He says there is no one who preaches more against sin.  When have we ever heard Lankford name the sins of the persons who comprise this Psy-op, such as W, V, Quayle, Hagmann, McGuire, Wiles, Hodges, Dr. Dino and on and on? If there is a problem, they always claim it is with the listeners.

Lankford created a little conundrum in his life when he so humbly was going to resort to the title, evangelist, but because of his so-called popular following,  decided he was some sort of internet Pastor over a bunch of internet sheep. Then when one of these sheep bleats in an email, his reaction is to skin them alive, on air, no less. When Lankford then makes his money doing the work of an evangelist, and shows up at a real local church, with a real pastor, and real problems, he has the nerve to tell the guy to SHUTUP.  In spite of his years of experience as a pastor, apparently he has nothing to say which can edify the man who is on the front lines.

It is like Obama, putt-ing away on the green in the rarified atmosphere of Hawaii, having the nerve to tell some CIA or military men on the front lines to shut up, as they are disturbing his unction in his golf game. Nice little Ivory Tower that some people live in.  Most Christians, who by definition have the Holy Spirit in them, live on the front lines of life. So when some woman who emails you, Mr. Lankford,  because she considers you to be a pastor, or maybe her pastor, upsets you,  you have to call in Steve Quayle, who is not afraid to use rough language, to defend your little Ivory Tower, and cook you some chicken and beef shish-kabobs over the campfire, as well.

Well, Mr. Quayle, while I care not for your tactics, I will give you credit in that you do publically state your opinions.  You are right  about the heresy of Dr. Broer, but you should have dealt with Nathan Leal a long time ago. But I guess Leal had a purpose in this little world of yours, just like W, the Intelligence Insider, and V the Guerilla Economist, and all those other liars who force you to keep shifting around those walnut shells of yours.  All of you are just a little bit proud on a good day, and when you have a bad day, the Hubris shines as bright as Obadiah 3, “The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?”  Read the next verse which tells Who will bring you down; it is the very author of the words you continually quote from the Scriptures.

By the way, did anyone pick up the oblique advice in the little story which Lankford related, about being careful who you pick a fight with?

 

UPDATE 1/17/2016  Steve Quayle has posted on his QAlerts a copy of his introduction to Tom Horn’s book Blood on the Altar, which he referenced in the above audio.

 

 

 

 

Kudos to Nathan Leal of the Watchman’s Cry for Standing Up (For a Few days, Anyway) To Dr. Ted Broer, Hagmann & Hagmann and Dave Hodges

“We cannot tolerate improprieties as to the gospel”  Nathan Leal

Nathan Leal of the Watchman’s Cry:  A Herald to Prepare has long been part of the inner circle of repeat guests on the Hagmann and Hagmann radio show.  On December 18, 2015 he was listening to Dr. Ted Broer on the Hagmann and Hagmann radio show, and became disturbed by the linking of certain New Age terminology relating to the chakras as well as to the pineal gland, as the Third Eye,  with our ability to communicate with God in the “thirteenth dimension”. Nathan Leal points out that when we are saved we are connected to the Lord in the spirit, and not through a renewal of the pineal gland or the third eye. When Nathan Leal called Dr. Broer at home to discuss these concerns, he was reproved for calling at dinner time, asked if he had a degree in biochemistry, and apparently was hung up on.

On December 23d, Nathan Leal sent a letter of resignation to Hear the Watchmen.com which is sponsoring a conference on March 18-20,2016 in Dallas, Texas.  Nathan Leal had been asked to be a primary speaker at the revival aspect of this conference.  This website now lists the “Inspired Speakers as of 1/1/16” as Doug and Joe Hagmann, John B. Wells, Pastor Billy Crone, Pastor David Lankford, L.A. Marzulli, Paul McGuire, Rev. Flip Benham, Coach Dave Daubenmire, Gregg Jackson, Dr. Ted and Sharon Broer, and John Robberson.  Nathan Leal’s name has been removed.  The banner adverstising this conference says, HEAR THE WATCHMEN “God does not call the qualified he qualifies the called”.  The End. Jesus Wins.

God does not call the qualified?  So why does Dr. Ted Broer think that Nathan Leal needs a degree in biochemistry to question a statement he makes?  Nathan Leal says that he responded to Broer, asking him, “Do you have a degree in theology?” The Bible says in Psalms 62:9 says, “Surely men of low degree are vanity, and men of high degree are a lie:  to be laid in the balance, they are altogether lighter than vanity”.

Also on the Dave Hodges Commonsense Show,  Dave Hodges defends Dr. Ted Broer’s version of events, calling this matter trivial.  However, Nathan Leal quotes in his version of events, Galatians 1:6-10 which says, “I marvel that ye are  so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:  which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than this which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.  For do I now persuade men, or God?  or do I seek to please men?  for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.”

Nathan Leal has created an audio dated December 30, 2015 called Audio Message- Why I Resigned from the Hear The Watchman Conference- Nathan’s Expose.  In this audio he details his concerns regarding deception in the church, noting that his calling as a Watchman requires honesty and integrity.  He reminds his listeners that “teachers will incur a stricter judgment”, and warns those who call themselves Watchmen and are public figures that use the alternative media, whether through radio or websites, that they will be held accountable to God.  Leal says that he followed protocol in discussing his concerns with everyone involved, including the upcoming conference participants.  He was apparently not well received; some never returning his calls or dismissing him.  He says that now he is being “tarred and feathered” as hateful and judgmental.  It is obvious if you listen to Leal’s audio message, which includes partial recordings from the Hagmann and Hagmann and the Dave Hodges’ shows, that this serious topic is being spun as a trivial matter which was hyped up by Nathan Leal.  The actual issue which Leal has brought up has yet to be honestly addressed by either Dr. Ted Broer or the “Watchmen” radio hosts.  To properly understand the subtlety of this particular concern, I recommend that you listen to the Audio Message yourself, and do your own evaluation.  Leal suggests that his audio will probably be up just for awhile, so now is the time to listen to it.

 

UPDATE January 5, 2015

Michael Erevna, over at his website Revelation Now.net, has posted his commentary on Nathan Leal to remind us of the time that his original research had been stolen out from under him in order to advance the Hagmann/Leal agenda. This article is entitled Lying, Unethical, Nathan Leal:  Cries Foul.  Aurora Justicia has left two comments under this article, noting that the inner circle of trust of the Hagmann/Quayle Watchmen group is being destroyed from the inside out. Now that Nathan Leal has taken his stand, he will never again be a featured guest on the Hagmann and Hagmann show, nor will he ever be invited to one of their sponsored conferences again. These persons never forgive a betrayal or a slight.  The strange thing about all of this is why Nathan Leal stood up on this particular issue, when to my knowledge he never stood up against any of the other public sins of this group before.

UPDATE January 8, 2016

The audio by Nathan Leal explaining the reason why he resigned from the upcoming conference in Dallas has been taken down from his website.

Steve Quayle and Pastor David Lankford discuss this matter on the Hagmann & Hagmann Report which can viewed here.

Websites/Videos which have commented on Nathan Leal in the past

For some reason, I have never felt led to write a post on the prophetic insights of Nathan Leal.  Based on behind the scenes comments I have received, there has been an ongoing controversy about him over the years which involve false prophecy, plagiarism, his actual wealth while claiming low income, the true state of his health, etc. If any one sends me a link on a website or video which has discussed these issues surrounding Leal, I will link it here.

watchmans-cry-exposed.blogspot.com

holyforchrist777.blogspot.com

endtimedelusion.com

watchman’s cry forum-correction vs. attack

John Little has some interesting comments here at omegashock.com  and here

 

Screen shot of comments by John Little

Screen shot of comments by John Little

screen shot of comments of John Little of Omega Shock

screen shot of comments of John Little of Omega Shock